Clean Rifle or not

Wobblebelly

Active Member
Sorry if this is already covered or opens a can of nasty worms but not really used to forums yet.

I have a Tikka T3 stainless/laminate .243. When I first got it I had terrible trouble with accuracy. After numerous ammo settled for Fed 100g soft Points.
Thing is, since not cleaning it I have been shooting accurately. On the odd times I have cleaned, the shots have been everywhere for some time before settling down and re-zeroing.
I have spoken to a police Officer from the 'armed unit' and he screamed when he heard I did not clean it anymore.
Spoken to local keeper who is a really genuine fellow and not one of those full of thenselves type and he has shot literally over a thousand foxes (He keeps a record of everyone!) and does not clean his rifleunless he starts to get problems.

Can I have some opinions. I know they will vary so please back them up with some honest experience.
Thanks and sorry again if already covered but need to ask my kids how to use forum
 
not to clean

i agree with the keeper friend i only clean mine if im having problems and thats not very offtern. the police wont fire many rounds and i bet the keeper fires hundreds so what does that tell you.
 
Bunnydan
Well Dan the proof is in the pudding as far as I can see. My T3 shoots true when dirty without a doubt. I have done the text book stuff and cleaned it after 20 rounds but for the next 10 rounds it is all over the place. Once it settles down again I re-zero and it shoots true until cleaned again.
My worry is am I ruining the barrels doing this as I am sure they are meant to be cleaned after each time it is used.
I would estimate I put upto 500 rounds a year through it
 
I have the same rifle, I only shot Federal 100gr PowerShok through it, I never had problems with consistancy.

I found it shot the same clean or dirty, I only now pull a bore snake through it.

I'm shooting homeloads now, exactly the same, clean/dirty.

My loads perform to the same POI as Federal PowerShok.

TJ
 
Jock.
As you state, those bullets do shoot true through the T3.
I would like to load my own but being I only shoot 500 max per year and the factory ammo shoots true I cannot justify self loading. Apart from that I have absolutely no idea where to start with home loading as I know no-one who loads themselves and have never seen it done.
Would beat watching soaps tho I know.
I get enough grief from the mess I leave tying trout flies!!
Thanks Jock
 
A friend of mine who shoots a lot on ranges tells me to only clean with a bore snake ...butttt watch out for copper fouling and if there are signs then give it a dousing of bore cleaner once or twice a year so the lands? don't get clogged..
Me personally not a clue as I am lucky if I use more than 2 or 3 boxes of ammo a year in my T3 .308 Lite as even when zeroing after a few shots the barrel is quite warm :rolleyes:
 
:lol: The simple answer is :-

That there is No simple answer ;) .

Every barrel is different. I am currently do a little experiment using this recently acquired 25-06. I gave it a good clean when I got is as it was used and I could see some copper fouling at the muzzle.

I then shot 59 rounds of factory ammunition (three different loads) none of which it seemed to like very much :rolleyes: then cleaned it before starting to handload for it. I have now shot 117 rounds without cleaning and it's doing just fine.

I will not clean it now until:-

1) I notice copper fouling building up

2) Accuracy drops off

3) The rifle gets very wet

You will have to make up your own mind what works for you and what your happy with doing ;) .
 
Brithunter said:
:lol: The simple answer is :-

That there is No simple answer ;) .

Every barrel is different. I am currently do a little experiment using this recently acquired 25-06. I gave it a good clean when I got is as it was used and I could see some copper fouling at the muzzle.

I then shot 59 rounds of factory ammunition (three different loads) none of which it seemed to like very much :rolleyes: then cleaned it before starting to handload for it. I have now shot 117 rounds without cleaning and it's doing just fine.

I will not clean it now until:-

1) I notice copper fouling building up

2) Accuracy drops off

3) The rifle gets very wet

You will have to make up your own mind what works for you and what your happy with doing ;) .
;) Simples! ;)
 
I just pull a soaked swab through mine after shooting and then a dry one before i take it out next time..

I think the problem comes when the barrel is brushed aggresively removing fine fouling that is in effect filling minute pits within the barrell..

Cant remember if i read that on here or in one of my books

As said each rifle and its owner are unique.. :eek:

Some more unique than others.. :lol: :lol:

Terry
 
I found with my .223 that after I clean it with some solvent and patches and put a few dry patches through so that there is no residue/liquid in the barrel it shoots to the same POI as before I cleaned it. What are you cleaning your barrel with? I imagine any residue left in would alter POI.
I may be wrong but I heard somewhere that even wet ammo and/or rain in the barrel will affect accuracy much like oil will if left in the barrel

Mick
 
Some, maybe most, rifles need to fire a few rounds, maybe as many as 7 or 8 before a really clean barrel starts to shoot it's best again. Also, some rifles will go "off" once a certain number of rounds had been fired.

I had a Tikka 695 in 270win about 10 years ago. It needed about 5 rounds to "bed down", but went off badly once about 25 rounds had been fired. Groups opened from .75" to at least 3" so you really only had a 20 round window, which is fine for a deer rifle for most amateur stalkers. It ****ed me off hugely and I sold it.

My Mannlicher 222rem needed two shots to get back to pre-clean zero after a thorough cleaning with Forrest bore foam. Once that was done, it was completely reliable for at least 100 rounds, I never let it go more than that.

You have to experiment to establish this stuff.
 
As Mick says, heavy rain fall getting into the breech & mag areas or oil contamination on bolt head / cases can cause some fairly large fluctuations in pressures on firing, in a few cases damage has occurred. :eek:
 
Which-ever rifle I take out I give it a couple of pushes through from the breech with a dry phosphor-bronze brush before I go.
Only after a long range session would I give it a proper seeing-to.
HWH.
 
You'll stumble across a few people who freak out when you say you don't clean it often. Comments like "you'll damage the bore" and "first round accuracy is what counts when stalking" are some of the common ones. Well I clean my rifle every 100 rounds or so. It's not uncommon for range guns to do 100 before a clean so how's it going to damage a sporter? As for the accuracy, it's better to get it dirty and know that after those fouling shots both your first, second and third rounds are going to go to the dirty zero. What if the first shot doesn't count and the second goes somewhere else? I'd rather not risk it.

When I get in I pull a bore snake with a very small amount of oil on the leading part through the bore. This oils it, brushes out the muck and more importantly any moisture, and then dries it. That means I don't disturb the copper and the barrel doesn't suffer from too much pitting. Copper supposedly attracts moisture so if you leave it in then it's maybe not ideal. If the gun is stored well it shouldn't make a vast difference though.
 
Spare the rod and spoil the barrel?

I am not vastly experienced at rifle-shooting or stalking, but this is my experience...

When I first got FAC about 6 years ago, my first c/f rifle was a second-hand Sako .243 (then about 15 years old) and after a year I bought a second-hand Sako .308 of similar age.

If I took the trouble to completley decopper either of these rifles, the accuracy (very good for the .243, adequate for the .308)disappeared for 10-20 rounds, after which presuambly the assorted pits, crevices and other lurking horrors had been smeared with copper.

About four years ago, I chopped the .243 in for a NEW (!) Sako 75 .22-250 for fox, and bought a NEW Finnlight as a foul-weather rifle. Both of these I 'ran in' carefully (yes, I know opinion is divided...) and I clean to the point where no more copper comes out after every firing with Hoppe's Benchrest or Forrest foam. These rifles shoot clean and dirty to the same point, assuming they don't get too hot.

The old .308, meanwhile, notwithstanding tolerable performance on the range immediately before, had a role in a two ill-placed shots, whereupon I got a riflesmith to have a look down it; he had no hesitation about passing a death sentence on the barrel. Indeed, It was shooting two together, one 5" away at that point.
Cause of death was given as inattention to cleaning by the first owner.

Anyhow, now rebarrelled and 'run in' it also shoots to the same point clean or dirty. I do, of course, carefully wipe the layer of oil from the bores before going out.

This experience has left me
a. suspicious of s/h rifles unless carefully examined (obvious, really, I know)
b. thinking that rifles which need several rounds to 'settle down' to accuracy/zero after a thorough decoppering clean might have less-than-lovely bores.
c. fastidiously decoppering my c/f rifles after any shooting at all
 
my tuppence,

If it isn't broke don't fix it....

I shot small bore targets up until my club closed down for about 12 years and cleaning the rifle although essential only ever served to mess up my cards for about 3 details until it started to get used again! Maybe it was in my head i don't know?

when needed in stalking calibers though a straight clean patch pull through should make her shiny and in my experience if the rifle is used regularly there's no need to get out the hard core gear if generally you look after your baby. Jacketed rounds don't deposit like rimfires but there is always a risk of brass swarf off the cases ending up in the wrong place.

I pull through before and after stalking as a habit and some might say 'no need' but that's my way. Leave the barrel alone unless it's urgent but do look down it before every use, and yes with the bolt out and unloaded...
 
I don't think smallbore target shooters ever clean their barrels until the end of the season.
 
I would not be so rude as to ask if, after you have cleaned it, you are cleaning the oil out of the barrel with a dry mop or piece of 4 x 2 on a jag before then shooting it?

I clean all rifles using jacketed bullets after each outing. I never clean any 22 rimfire used with modern 22 rimfire ammunition. Ever.
 
Once upon a time I cleaned after every outing and invariably found my zero had taken a walk. Then I stopped sluicing and swabbing and hey presto, on the button every time!

The mod., a T8, gets a real going over inside and out with 009 or similar and keeps me company next to the woodburner until it dries out. The rifle, on the other hand, is given a quick once over with an oily rag and kept warm for 12-24 hours to drive out any moisture before going back in the box. Obviously, I check the bore from both ends before loading up but, other than that, it now gets the mop and bucket treatment no more than once or twice a year.
 
"the police wont fire many rounds and i bet the keeper fires hundreds so what does that tell you"


Bunnnydan, this tell me that you know absolutely nothing.


Every sixth week most police firearms units have a rotated training week, dry drills, live firing etc etc. i would almost guarantee they shoot more rounds and have more trigger /barrel time in that week than you do in years

Most of the FC rangers i know are too knackered to spend ages polishing their kit all the time......

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Custom barrels generally foul less, hence need less cleaning, cold bore shots are not the same as a fouled barrel shot but there comes a point where there is too much copper in the barrel and that affects accuracy. Any body who has fast chamberings eg, 22-250 / 6.5-284 etc will tell you that carbon build up kills the accuracy and the barrel way more than copper build up.

Everybody i have ever met who is non serving has a defferent cleaning regime, the issue is the absolute bollocks that is advise as opposed to fact that you use to make your own decisions.
Its already been said that different barrels behave differently.

Me: i only clean my 22lr's around the breach when there cruddy but alsways the bolts (extractor) and if they get really wet, the .17HMR at about 20 -40 rounds a full clean, all the centerfires again if they get really wet and after about 50 rounds in the 30-06 and 9.3 x 62, the 6.5-284 & 22-250 i attack the carbon after every session no matter how small a round count.
 
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