ok lads on reading lots of posts on hear i keep hearing of runners with big guns ie 308 etc my point is i have a 223 and a 243 now the 243 destroys deer blows big holes in them lots of meat damage with 100g federal soft points have used balistik tips as well which almost decapitate a deer with a neck shot and have never had a roe deer taike more than 3 steps when hit with the 223 with 55g soft points now im no police marksman i can shoot but im in no way claming to be the best so why dont i get runners with both these calibers so my best shot was 300yards and droped on the spot with a hart lung shot can lower calibers deliver more knock over than the bigger guns yes i know it sounds daft more power bigger gun bigger bulit etc so why are they running with bigger guns but not with lesser calibers your expert advise welcome willing to no more on this thanks
It all depends and the conditions vary. Your getting into interesting territory and there is no simple answer that I am aware of. It's a bit like haw can a head shot rabbit jump and flip about with it's brains blown out? but it happens
You seem to be talking about Roe here. Can't speak of Roe, never shot one.
Take that 243 to stalk Sika and you will soon find out what runners are, unless you neck them that is.
As discussed before on this forum runners seem to be a function of two things:
1) The level of adrenalin - if the animal is spooked / nervous before the shot, it is highly likely to run when hit. If it has no clue that you are there, it will collapse at the spot.
2) Knock down power and energy transfer of the bullet - and here the debate really starts.
A small light rapidly expanding bullet will expend all its energy in something a small as a Roe, and simply knock it off its feet.
Go to the other extreme - a large slow moving and heavy bullet will also knock it straight down.
But take a hard mid weight bullet designed for much larger animals - it may well punch straight through without expanding much and expending very little energy within the body of a Roe deer.
My take on it is provided you place a shot correctly just tight in behind the shoulder blade and do massive damage to the heart / lungs and major blood vessels you have a quick humane kill. I always expect a runner and will thus pass up a shot if it is too close to thick cover / boundry etc. Even if the beast does run, they only run for a few seconds, butin that time can cover a lot of ground.
If I definately want to anchor a beast, then I will shoot it straight through both shoulders - but you do damage some of the meat.
a thanks for that i have found a lot of my heads in the far side jacket of the roe deer well mushromed .as you say a bigger round may just pass right thro bit like a 22rimfire and hmr17 /22rimfire passes right thro no expansion and the hmr 17rapid expansion so smaler calibers can be better than bigger calibers on the same sise game so smaller rounds dump every thing in to the target have not shot silka have put a few reds down with 243without problem but all under 200yards .was thinking of getting a bigger gun but think il keep the 243 and 223 as they fill all the boxes at the moment but intresting little post so bigger is better if you have bigger game to shoot as i will not be shooting cape buffalow bears etc think the 243will be my biggest gun / now bmg50 i can but dream what a deer gun that would be
I have found though on a couple of occasions with Red Hinds at 180yd type ranges that I get less than satisfactory performance - I have had one instance where bullet is deflected by a rib on the way in and ended up in the stomach and another where a 243 bullet only penetrated the nearside shoulder and did n't penetrate through the rib cage at all.
Simple solution is to keep shots at closer range and probably to use a harder bullet.
But also now have a 7mm for bigger stuff.
I wouldn't use Federal on anything I was planning on eating.
If you are getting "huge holes and carcase damage" with 100gr Federal then you need to change your bullet.
The only experience I have of them is in 270 130gr and they made a real mess compared to Norma.
what would you recomend and why not federal now you have got me thinking / is it the calibers that are good/ ie why i have not had a runner. or is it the bullets that im using in those guns i did have to put two shots in to a roe deer shot with 55g balistik tip first time i had to use a folow up shot as i dont home load im limited on bullet tipes
Originally Posted by bewsher500
we couldn't get the ammunition we ordered (Norma) once and were persuaded to take some federal in the same weight.
The difference in carcase damage was massive. I don;t know if it was due to the lack of bonding between jacket and core but they seemed to be much more damaging. and not in a good predictable way
im with heym sr20 if you put the bullet more central in the chest and take out the front legs the animal will not run. i know that a lot of people dont like this because of the meat damage but i mince the front legs anyway so this isnt a problem for me