Gunsmiths bona fides in the UK

John Gryphon

Well-Known Member
G`day members,

I was thinking about the term gunsmith and it seems that any bloke in Australia that is a tinkerer and can use a lathe can set himself up with a few tools and hang a "gunsmith" shingle out the front as there is no need to do any course/apprenticeship here.

To be a gunsmith in the UK is there a need to do a proper course in `smithing to be a gunsmith,is there a need to be registered etc

I have used a few blokes here and some are just lathe men with a gun interest without ever having to do an apprenticeship etc.(in gunsmithing)

I do go to a bloke that learned his trade as an armourer with the Aus army,he knows his stuff too.
 
Pretty much the same here John. There are few gunsmiths, people tend to confuse the term with that of a RFD (registered firearms dealer).
 
Gaining a Registered Firearms Dealers ticket here in the UK entitles the holder to manufacture firearms and ammunition regardless of if he has the ability or skill to do so.
Like 8x57 says there are very few true "Gunsmiths" or even "Riflesmiths" for that matter.

Ian.
 
To be totally fair some of the best "riflesmiths" in the country are really first rate machinists and produce very good products but they never served their time as gunsmiths.
 
To be totally fair some of the best "riflesmiths" in the country are really first rate machinists and produce very good products but they never served their time as gunsmiths.

Fair point, but most are not even first rate machinists, they have been shown how to fit a barrel, bed a stock etc but thats as far as their skill level goes.

Ian
 
Sorting the Wheat from the Chaff starts on here, with the old adage, You are only as good as your last job.:D, I think I know at least one top notch fella.:cool:
 
Gaining a Registered Firearms Dealers ticket here in the UK entitles the holder to manufacture firearms and ammunition regardless of if he has the ability or skill to do so.
Like 8x57 says there are very few true "Gunsmiths" or even "Riflesmiths" for that matter.

Ian.

Too true :) I'm an RFD but use a good friend who is a top class gunsmith (and RFD) to do any work necessary on the guns I sell. He would have my guts if I went anywhere near a gun with a turnscrew or file (and I don't blame him - I'm useless). :rofl:
 
Too true :) I'm an RFD but use a good friend who is a top class gunsmith (and RFD) to do any work necessary on the guns I sell. He would have my guts if I went anywhere near a gun with a turnscrew or file (and I don't blame him - I'm useless). :rofl:

Unfortunately not all RFDs are as honest about their skills. I know of several botch jobs when our "gunsmith out the back" has tried to thread a barrel for a moderator, and one "gunsmith" that I know can't even match a set of scope mounts to a rifle. Then you should see some of the so called repairs to shotgun stocks that they ask payment for, honestly a boy scout with an axe in the woods can do better. Yet still people go to them and refer to them as gunsmiths and even recommend them to others, but then I must be a bit of a fussy bugger.
 
Here's the thing though.. a gunsmith is much more of a general, 'do-all' sort of person with firearms, some good & some poorer with lathes and skills. Barrel making, action making and stockmaking, not to mention final assembly of a firearm are quite different aspects. There are some fine gunmaking company's in the UK who do train young people and bring them on into mature craftsmen in their chosen aspect of firearm production.
An example would perhaps be Westley Richards - a good Birmingham based company. Hand engraving of their firearms may possibly be done in-house, but likely as not by jewellers.
I suspect also other 'one man band' companys may have introduced their children to the business and be passing on their skills, these skills more than likely having been learned while in the employment of others, - be they civilian or military.
However, there doesn't appear to be any formal gunsmithing tuition or course in the UK that ultimately qualifies a graduate to be a 'fully qualified gunsmith'.
In any event, a decent RFD would be honest about his ability as a gunsmith & also either pass on or recommend someone skilled for the task at hand. I may be wrong though, just my thoughts. ATB
 
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I don't think there are any courses as such run exclusively for gunsmiths in this country deeangeo but several apprentices are in training throughout the country with the majority probably being London based. I certainly don't think there is anything like the world famous Leige gunsmith school.
Don't confuse an armourer with a gunsmith. I started training as an armourer and while we had to do the basic skills tests such as filing a 1" cube of steel and fitting plates into holes I certainly wouldn't say that at the end of the day we were gunsmiths.
 
Although there are several excellent gunsmithing schools in the USA, i have been told that you also dont need to be qualified to set up there either.

Ian.
 
To be a gunsmith in the US all you have to be is a Federal Firearms License holder - I'm assuming that's the equivilant of being a RFD. There is decent training should one pursue it, but there's no requirement (legally).
 
To be described as a true gunsmith - or as a practitioner of one of the associated trades such as stocker or barrel maker - here in the UK, someone should really have served a full apprenticeship under the auspices of The Worshipful Company of Gunmakers and then been awarded their papers as a craftsman on completion of several years training. Sadly they are a bit of a dying breed as it is increasingly difficult to get skilled master craftsmen to take on apprentices these days. These are the guys who can produce a made-to-measure shotgun or rifle from a lump of steel and a chunk of aged Walnut, even if the CNC machine has broken down...

It is very different from the skilled machinists / gun enthusiasts known as riflesmiths who have taught themselves to take a pile of parts - an custom action, a barrel from a specialist maker, a high end production stock and some 'boutique' ancilliary parts to produce a beautifully made rifle thatcan shoot the nads off a gnat at 500 yards. No less skilled in their way but very different.

Some of the latter come near to bridging the gap and maybe the guild need to recognise this more modern route into the trade...
 
To be described as a true gunsmith - or as a practitioner of one of the associated trades such as stocker or barrel maker - here in the UK, someone should really have served a full apprenticeship under the auspices of The Worshipful Company of Gunmakers and then been awarded their papers as a craftsman on completion of several years training. Sadly they are a bit of a dying breed as it is increasingly difficult to get skilled master craftsmen to take on apprentices these days. These are the guys who can produce a made-to-measure shotgun or rifle from a lump of steel and a chunk of aged Walnut, even if the CNC machine has broken down...

It is very different from the skilled machinists / gun enthusiasts known as riflesmiths who have taught themselves to take a pile of parts - an custom action, a barrel from a specialist maker, a high end production stock and some 'boutique' ancilliary parts to produce a beautifully made rifle thatcan shoot the nads off a gnat at 500 yards. No less skilled in their way but very different.

Some of the latter come near to bridging the gap and maybe the guild need to recognise this more modern route into the trade...


And those that expect such a Qualified Trade must be prepared to pay for it.
The old adage of "find a good dentist and pay to stay with him" springs to mind.
The pain is less.....

Stan
 
To be described as a true gunsmith - or as a practitioner of one of the associated trades such as stocker or barrel maker - here in the UK, someone should really have served a full apprenticeship under the auspices of The Worshipful Company of Gunmakers and then been awarded their papers as a craftsman on completion of several years training. Sadly they are a bit of a dying breed as it is increasingly difficult to get skilled master craftsmen to take on apprentices these days. These are the guys who can produce a made-to-measure shotgun or rifle from a lump of steel and a chunk of aged Walnut, even if the CNC machine has broken down...

It is very different from the skilled machinists / gun enthusiasts known as riflesmiths who have taught themselves to take a pile of parts - an custom action, a barrel from a specialist maker, a high end production stock and some 'boutique' ancilliary parts to produce a beautifully made rifle thatcan shoot the nads off a gnat at 500 yards. No less skilled in their way but very different.

Some of the latter come near to bridging the gap and maybe the guild need to recognise this more modern route into the trade...

And those that expect such a Qualified Trade must be prepared to pay for it.
The old adage of "find a good dentist and pay to stay with him" springs to mind. The pain is less.....
Stan

:thumb: +1 Absolutely so.
 
Interesting how the term Riflesmith has come into common use in recent years, much the same as the term Pistolsmith came about in the 70's.

Glorified armourers or gun plumbers perhaps? :stir: Plumber being a term used in the forces (well the RAF at least) for an armourer. :lol:
 
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Interesting how the term Riflesmith has come into common use in recent years, much the same as the term Pistolsmith came about in the 70's.

Perhaps that's because more budgets with ordinary folk find such tradesmen an appropriate spend, rather than the cost of a fully skilled expert...?

Provided one selects their riflesmith carefully to carry out necessary work in a timely and competent manner, then that's got to be a winner.
Should it go pear shaped, well now, that's altogether another matter.
Therein lies the rub. ATB
 
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