Forestry Commission

dieseldan

Well-Known Member
Was thinking.

The FC is a government body which means it should be answerable to the tax payers (you and I)

our biggest land owner is shafting us IMHO.

Is there a communication channel open to us with regard to the current methods of deer management and the associated costs?

If any one can shed some light I would appreciate it.
 
FOI

The FC being a government body, a Freedom of Information request is your best bet.

You can submit your request online and they have a legal obligation to provide an acknowledgement and response within specified time intervals. If they don't respond, their information officer can be imprisoned.

The best website I have come across for submitting FOI requests is:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com

If you use this site, you will receive email updates on the progress of your enquiry.

There have been 46 FOI requests made to the FC from this website, none related to deer:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/forestry commission/bodies?page=1
 
FC

Not sure if that is my angle as i have to ask for specific documents.

My question is to reiterate

Why can a mountain biker travel to Glentress forest park and use the FC land all day everyday on facilities that were built specifically for them at considerable tax payers expense and yet when i stalked 30 miles up the road i had to pay to do so.

Different sport different rules.

I think I ned to get my MSP or MEP or MP or Local councilor to ask a parliamentary question on my behalf. They might be busy though on fact finding missions :evil: :evil:
 
OOPS

Right I have gone all DEERSTALKER2010 and started harrassing members of parliament.

No doubt i will get no where but feck it.

Extract of letter to rossana cunningham and similar was sent to jim murphy :evil: (My MP and MSP for the environment).

>>>>>>>>>>

This is a question on a very emotive subject and I am unsure of your position on this even though you are minister for the environment.

I would however value your views and response.


My chosen sport is shooting and in this instance deer stalking on Forestry Commission land which as we know is managed by the commission for the government of the day and therefore the tax payer.


My point is really not about my sport however, it is about it is about discrimination and inequality. The percieved view of shooting clouds the argument of course.


The overall point is this:


Why can a mountain biker travel to Glentress forest park and use the FC land all day everyday (on facilities that were built specifically for them at considerable tax payers expense) for free and yet when I stalked 30 miles up the road I had to pay vast sums to do so.


Different sport different rules but both on the same land with same landlord. Why the disparity in costs?


We have always done it this way is not an excuse and it is wrong. The leases bring in much needed income for the FC but so would the mountian bikers even if charged �2 per day, so it cannot be held up as a financial argument.


Now I appreciate with the firearms and public safety there is considerably more administration work required prior to allowing access for the FC but the sums being charged for stalking leases beggars belief.


Woodland stalking is not the elitist sport of the Victorian estates circa 1880 and I really think we are getting a raw deal.


I would like a parliamentary question on this subject raised. Can you advise me on how to proceed?
 
It is time we spoke up for our selves we have been stamped on for to long. Firearms aren't illegal and less die using them than with mountain bikes ;)
 
Deerstalker2010 said:
It is time we spoke up for our selves we have been stamped on for to long. Firearms aren't illegal and less die using them than with mountain bikes ;)

We had three serious accidents up here in Dumfrieshire with mountain bikes before Christmas, including one death.

ATB

Tahr
 
Someone recently asked the FC a question under FOI about the number of boar shot by FC rangers in the Forest of Dean and got a full answer. The FOI requires an answer within 21 days so no prevarication but you will only get the question you asked answered so careful phrasing is required.

The law is that if they have the information and there is no reason against the national interest or for reasons of commercial sensitivity (or similar) then it should be released. If there is a refusal there is the right of appeal to the Information Commissioner who can compel the release of the information.
 
JAK

Jack thanks for this but as fecking usual.....


"BASC response to consultation on The Long-term Role of the Public Forest Estate in England"

we have one or 2 FC forests up here in the land that BASC forgot. Oh and one or two of those deer thingies.

TYPICAL OF BASC to me , English forests only.

Why are they not the English Association of Shooting and Conservation???
 
Re: FC

dieseldan said:
Not sure if that is my angle as i have to ask for specific documents.

My question is to reiterate

Why can a mountain biker travel to Glentress forest park and use the FC land all day everyday on facilities that were built specifically for them at considerable tax payers expense and yet when i stalked 30 miles up the road i had to pay to do so.

Different sport different rules.

I think I ned to get my MSP or MEP or MP or Local councilor to ask a parliamentary question on my behalf. They might be busy though on fact finding missions :evil: :evil:


Your'e right Dan, ive had this discussion quite a few times, it is a complete pi** take, but like you say...we allow it!
 
What you don't seem to be taking into account is the fact that the FC is an accounable body just like the council of goverment department. If the council were to give away resources free of charge there would be uproar. Deer to the FC are a resource to be utilised to be as near self sufficient as possible. The alternatives to leases would be what?
A/ a free for all, that is not going to happen.
B/ completely in house. expensive. Currently subsidised by the lease system.
C/ Day tickets or week tickets as happens with BASC. Work it out. How much does Basc make on that lease? Stalkers per week times 52.
D/ Let through sporting agents.
E/ Timeshare stalking where you buy a week.
F? the current system.

That is your options feel free to aadd others.
I would go for C if the FC were forced to change where you rent the wood for a week. You pay a ranger or prove your qualifications so L" will still stand. You will wait your turn. Best woods will go those in the Know. And your stalking opps will go into freefall.
Nobody liked rates but nobody had a clue how to sort that out.

FC has a duty to make money from the land it manages. If you have an alternative suggestion it may be worth starting a dialog with them. There is scope for that through the likes of a DMG. Individuals looking for free access will get few opportunities as there are hundreds of stalkers out there that would apply for a day ticket from all over Britain.

The one concern I had on Saturday was Ian Feguson's comment on the cull figures and there were more deer there to be had. It proved that there is no upper limit to the cull. Somebody mentioned "stalking in a desert" It suggested to me that the FC does not object to a wood being shot out,

What about pigeons? A lot of woods I have been in could sustain a night flight. Maybe they shoud lease that aspect to. You sitting quietly in your high seat and 20 hairy assed pigeon shooters enter with their paraphinalia.

Free access for stalking, why not other disciplines?
Sorry to rock your boat,
Jim
 
How about;

Option G - "animal" tickets, similar to the US system, every qualified recreational stalker can enter a lottery to try to get a game tag.

That way you have an opportunity for all recreational stalkers to have a chance of a deer for a low price on public land (FC) or if you want to spend the money you can still pay to go with a commercial outfit on private land
 
jimbo123p said:
What you don't seem to be taking into account is the fact that the FC is an accounable body just like the council of goverment department. If the council were to give away resources free of charge there would be uproar. Deer to the FC are a resource to be utilised to be as near self sufficient as possible. The alternatives to leases would be what?
A/ a free for all, that is not going to happen.
B/ completely in house. expensive. Currently subsidised by the lease system.
C/ Day tickets or week tickets as happens with BASC. Work it out. How much does Basc make on that lease? Stalkers per week times 52.
D/ Let through sporting agents.
E/ Timeshare stalking where you buy a week.
F? the current system.

That is your options feel free to aadd others.
I would go for C if the FC were forced to change where you rent the wood for a week. You pay a ranger or prove your qualifications so L" will still stand. You will wait your turn. Best woods will go those in the Know. And your stalking opps will go into freefall.
Nobody liked rates but nobody had a clue how to sort that out.

FC has a duty to make money from the land it manages. If you have an alternative suggestion it may be worth starting a dialog with them. There is scope for that through the likes of a DMG. Individuals looking for free access will get few opportunities as there are hundreds of stalkers out there that would apply for a day ticket from all over Britain.

The one concern I had on Saturday was Ian Feguson's comment on the cull figures and there were more deer there to be had. It proved that there is no upper limit to the cull. Somebody mentioned "stalking in a desert" It suggested to me that the FC does not object to a wood being shot out,

What about pigeons? A lot of woods I have been in could sustain a night flight. Maybe they shoud lease that aspect to. You sitting quietly in your high seat and 20 hairy assed pigeon shooters enter with their paraphinalia.

Free access for stalking, why not other disciplines?
Sorry to rock your boat,
Jim


I dont think youre wrong with what youre saying, but there does need to be fair play accross the board. Of course we need leases and anyone else wishing to use the Forestry land for rec purposes should pay their way.
It is however the amount being charged for FC leases which is questionable and always has been.
In the blurb when the leases come out it states they dont accept the highest bid for the land when considering candadates...of course they dont! :lol:

If only that was case.
 
Jimbo

jims quote
"FC has a duty to make money from the land it manages"

Charge the fecking bikers then!!! That revenue cold then reduce the cost of the leases which are out of control.

All I am asking for is a level playing field.

Oh and I see Mr JagerSA has come out of hibernation.. nice to here from you JC, has the lust worn off :p
 
Re: Jimbo

dieseldan said:
jims quote
"FC has a duty to make money from the land it manages"

Charge the fecking bikers then!!! That revenue cold then reduce the cost of the leases which are out of control.

All I am asking for is a level playing field.

Oh and I see Mr JagerSA has come out of hibernation.. nice to here from you JC, has the lust worn off :p

No the lust is still there...just concentrating on bigger priorities! Ive been around, just not posting much really. ;)

Interesting post though!
 
I suppose it may be different near conurbations but here there is no shortage of FC land packed with deer, not shot and not leased.

I cull roe for an estate (grace and favour arrangement) and alongside this land is an area of FC forest which I used to lease but gave up due to having another lease and not enough time. The deer fairly poured out of this forest and I duly shot quite a few (instruction being 'if its brown its down'). I enquired through the FC local office to see who had the lease - 'no-one'. Yes they did have an area they were re-stocking in 4 or 5 years time and they would deal with the deer then.

So - how much does FC take for leases at the mo? I am currently paying (elsewhere to the above area) about £10/hec which personally I'd say say is high end.
 
If only the state did not own forests, post offices, airports, railways, schools, hospitals etc how beutiful country would it be 8)
 
as916 said:
Can anyone provide a link to where you can view available leases on the FC site?

I dont think you can see them on the website. The FC sent the CDs with data to interested parties.
 
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