Long(er) Range Scopes and calibre's

guybaxendale

Well-Known Member
I have just got back from a trip to Africa and it has prompted some thoughts on my set up:

I currently use a Sako Synthetic Stainless in 30.06 with a Swarovski Z6i 3-18 X 50 on top. I find it perfect for my UK Stalking where a long shot is 200 yrds but on the more open plains of Africa I have wondered if a flatter calibre and a scope with a Ballistic turret might be a better option than 'holding over' as I currently do.

The questions are:

1) If i were to choose a flatter shooting calibre which one should I look at. My first thought was a 300 Win Mag as i know ammunition is reasonably easy to get hold of in Africa but happy to hear any ideas

2) If I were to spend a fortune on a fancy scope which one should i choose? I love Swarovski scopes so the Z6i 5-30 X 50 is an obvious stating point but I have no idea how it ranks against other Ballistic turret scopes. Any advice and thoughts welcome.
Cheers
Guy
 
I like the Swarovskis too. I use the reticle as attached and occasionally use the first dot down at x30. For field use, I want a scope that doesn't need to be touched.

I would stick with the rifle you have got and are comfortable with. You're going to have to compensate in some way regardless of what rifle you use as you shoot further away.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12296998/Reticles/260 Rem 129 SP N165 - Swarovski.pdf

I have range finding binocs now, but when I started with these reticles I just had a range finder.

Regards

JCS
 
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My vote is for a 7mm Rem Mag. Their performance is fantastic - both up close and out further than I can shoot. Good range of projectiles available too. With a good dial up scope, an animal nthe size of a red stag is in danger out to 500 yards. This is the choice of plenty of tops hunters in NZ. Take a look at Nathan Fosters page at http://www.ballisticstudies.com/ Go to the "Knowledge Base" tab and look around - some very in depth info.
Cheers,
Hayden
 
Regardless of the caliber, a Mil/Mil scope will help (once you know how to use it) at hold offs and range estimation.
 
Have a sneaky peaky on Long Range Hunting Online Magazine

There are some excellent resources on there at both ends of the price point.

Many of the articles are pretty amazing - 1,000 yard shots with a .223, that kind of thing ;)

I'm not suggesting that calibre, just illustrating some of the content on that site.

Loads of information on scopes, mounts, calibres, specific loads and other whatnots.

Good luck !
 
Stick with what you have already. But look at your load that you are using and choose the flattest shooting combination you can get. I think the 165gn is optimal for the 30-06 in terms of velocity / ballistic coefficient etc. - Hornady.com - Accurate, Deadly, Dependable - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc has a very good ballistics calculator to play with.

Then have a look at your zero - most of us zero for 1" high at 100 yds on the basis that this pretty much good for 200 yds. Have a look at zeroing a bit higher - say 2" at 100yds - and you only have about 5" drop below the sight line at 275 yds.

Then go and practice.
 
==== Realistically =======================


I will state my conclusion first, because I reached it years ago, from shooting all kinds of bullets at all kinds of ranges from a .30-06.

Stay with the .30-06. Read J.Y. Jones' book - every species of big game with one .30-06.
Change to a 2.5-10x42 sort of scope with a ballistic plex scope, like the Zeiss Z-plex.

1. 100 yard zero is not optimum. Change it to 200 if you will shoot from 50 to 400 yards.
That puts you
25 0.0
50 1.0
100 2.0
200 0.0
300 -7.7

You can just hold dead on out to 225 yards, and one stadia down on the Z-plex or Burris BP to 300, or top of the first Mil Dot.

2. Shoot a 165-gr or 180-gr bullet ( or both, if your rifle shoots them to the vertical line).
Your .30-06 should shoot just about all 180-gr bullets, RN to Match, 2,700 to 2,850 fps, to touching close, from 25 to 215 yards. After that, the 180-gr BT will stay with the faster 165s.

3. For hunts where 250 yard shots are more common...
Sight in for the higher BC 180-gr bullet at 225 yards, with 6.00 MOA elevation.
Your slower or lower factory 180 will be zero at 200 yards....see above table.

180-fr BC = .500 2,800 fps zero = 225 yards - Hold dead on to 175 to 250 yards
50 1.0 easy to remember
75 1.9
100 2.4 easy to remember
125 2.4
150 2.5
175 2.0 easy to remember
200 1.2
225 0.0
250 -1.6
275 -3.5
300 -6.0 easy to remember
350 -11.9 one foot
400 -19.7 easy to remember and mark

165-gr BC = .475 2,900 fps zero = 245 yards - Hold dead on the heart 200 to 275 yards.
50 1.1
75 2.0 easy to remember
100 2.6
125 2.9
150 2.9
175 2.6
200 2.0 easy to remember
225 1.0
250 -0.3
275 -2.0 easy to remember
300 -4.0 easy to remember
350 -9.5
400 -16.5
 
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Southern says it all !

Use 30-06 with a point blank zero based on smallest animal being hunted.

My preference is a scope such as the Swarovski with a BR reticle which gives you aim points every 50 yds out to 600 or so yards,

I would say a 2.5-15 or 3-18 would be ideal for your needs as larger mag scopes can be more fussy to use in the field and have reduced field of view.

As others have said get plenty of practice at all ranges.
 
To the original poster,

Looking at your profile I see you are London based. I now understand your questioning. You popped into William Evans at lunch time. They have a beautiful 300 win mag in stock 2nd hand. A classic styled English rifle and you need justification to add it to the armoury. If this is the case 30-06 not even good enough - you must have the 300 win mag. If this post makes no sense go into William Evans and have a look. Fortunately for me it's bolt is on the wrong side, otherwise it could have expensive last week when I was in there.
 
To the original poster,

Looking at your profile I see you are London based. I now understand your questioning. You popped into William Evans at lunch time. They have a beautiful 300 win mag in stock 2nd hand. A classic styled English rifle and you need justification to add it to the armoury. If this is the case 30-06 not even good enough - you must have the 300 win mag. If this post makes no sense go into William Evans and have a look. Fortunately for me it's bolt is on the wrong side, otherwise it could have expensive last week when I was in there.

My office is about 10 doors up the street from William Evans :D
 
andy, you sound like a .30-06 fan. :p

The other issues are trajectory of the .300 WM and 7mm RM vs the .30-06, and the energy delivered.
The trajectory differences are insignificant.
The .300 WM has about 25% more energy due to heavier bullets at higher velocities.
The 7mm RM has about 12% more energy with its best bullets, the 160-gr. Same trajectory as the .300 WM at hunting range.

==== Heavy bullets =============

The advantage of of the .300 Win Mag is with heavier bullets, just as the .30-06 has an advantage over the .308 Winchester with heavier bullets. The US Army uses it because it can send a heavy bullet which can retain downrange velocity, stability, and resist wind better than a lighter bullet traveling at lower velocity from a 7.62x51mm.

What the step up buys you is energy on target, at the price of recoil. An .30-06 is the limit for many shooters.
How far are you going to shoot from a field position?
Beyond 300 yards? Unlikely.

Do you need the extra energy of the .300 WM at 300 yards?

I toss in the .308 Win for comparison, since it is .30-caliber and a lot of hunters know it.

From Nosler Manual
200 gr. Accubond BC = .588 at .30-06 velocities.
.308: max MV 2375 fps: 2,000 fps at approx 250 yards
.30-06: max mv 2690 fps: 2000 fps at approx 480 yards
.300 win mag: max mv 2975 fps: 2000 fps at approx 625 yards

==== Trajectory ===========================

A 7mm Rem Mag with a 160-gr bullet will shoot the same as a .300 WM with a 180-gr.

It is really not fair to compare the same bullet for trajectory, because the .308 Win is going to shine with one of many great 150-gr bullets, the .30-06 with 165 to 180, the .300 Wm with 180 to 200 grains.

Since most of the UK hunter sight in at 100 yards, let's use that for a start.
I have to pick a bullet, so here is a likely African bullet.
Optimum performance requires in impact velocity of 1,800 FPS.

Nosler Accubond 150 gr Ballistic Coefficient: 0.435
Nosler Accubond 165 gr Ballistic Coefficient: 0.475
Nosler Accubond 180 gr Ballistic Coefficient: 0.507

.308 Win 180-gr Nosler AB 2,600 FPS 100/ 0.0 200/-4.4 300/-15.7 400/-35.0

.30-06 180-gr Nosler AB 2,800 FPS 100/ 0.0 200/-3.6 300/-13.0 400/-29.3

.300 WM 180-gr Nosler AB 3,050 FPS 100/ 0.0 200/-2.8 300/-10.4 400/-23.7

0.8 inch difference between the .30-06 and .300 WM at 200 yards
2.6 inches difference between the .30-06 and .300 WM at 300 yards

Using a 165-gr in the .30-06 vs 180-gr in the .300 WM, there is almost identical trajectory.

If you 200-yd zero a .300 Wm and a .30-06 with a 165-gr bullet, and 7mm RM with 160-gr...

the .30-06 is -7.7 inches low at 300 yards, with 165-gr NAB
the .300 WM is -6.0 inches low at 300 yards. with 180-gr NAB
The 7mm RM is -6.0 inches low at 300 yards with 160-gr Sierra.

Can you aim and hold .85 MOA at 300 yards on a hair ( not a bullseye target)?
Do you need the extra 350 to 500 ft-lbs of energy?
 
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I hunted with a Leupold M3 with the 308 turret on for quite a few years , set a 200 you could get reliable hits out to 250-300 without worrying and further than that you just range,dial,shoot !

If your going to take longer shots then practice practice practice !

Look at kenton industries who will make you a custom turret for your scope to match your ballistics
 
I would also say stick with the 30-06, use high or at least fairly high bc bullets.
Zero at 100m or yds and use BDC turrets. Practice, practice.

The scope I could recommend would be a Schmidt and Bender 3-12x50 Zenith with BDC turrets fitted. They are very easy to use and if you memorise the drops you can even adjust without looking because of the zero stop/one turn . This setup will get you out to roughly 500m with a 30-06.
The good thing with bdc is you can set your zero distance anywhere you want, in the bush at 100yds/m open country just set 2" high.
Most important is to test and try out the gear at all sorts of ranges, the more practice the quicker you get.
edi
 
Inside the power range (which is 300 yards on large game ) of the .30-06 sighted in at 225 yards, you don't need to touch a turret.
That is the whole point: the bullet is inside a 5-inch rise and fall to 270 yards, the size of a heart.
If you use a ballistic stadia reticle like Mil Dot, Burris, Zeiss, Swaro, or Nikon, your can just point and shoot to 400 ( and 600 on paper targets ).

And get something with a low end power like 1.5-6x or 2.5-10x so you can quickly shoot close up or a follow up shot offhand on wounded game.
 
Sometimes I want to hit or scratch the spine even at 300m, mainly to anchor the animal, 5" would not do. I prefer to have the bullet go where the crosshair is.
All these guessing games with hold over are a recipe for disaster. Even 2" high setting to take a neck shot at a small deer at 100yd can lead to a cock up.
Yes 2.5-10 is a nice size scope that covers close range to easily 300m.
edi
 
I agree ejg. If you are shooting at distance you want the point of impact to be at your point of aim - no guess work. When you only get one shot it needs to be right, you owe it to the animal.
Cheers,
Hewie
 
It is not a "guessing game" to hit the spine at or some other small spot using hold over or hold under.

1. You rifle has to be accurate enough to hit that small spot
2. The shooter's ability has to be good enough.

So it is unrealistic tho shoot for a 3 inch spot on big game at 300 yards. The "guessing game" is where that spot is under the hide.
That is why it is more reasonable to shoot for a 5 or 6 inch target, like heart / lung, or shoulder joint.

If the rifle is accurate, a good marksman can judge a 2 inch hold under at 100 yards much easier than he can judge and hold 6 inch hold over at 300 yards.

The ballistic marks on the scopes I mentioned above make it really easy to sight in your rifle at 100 or 200 yards and just use the hash marks, especially if you have a laser range finder.

I have scopes with Mil Mil turrets and Mil Dot reticles, and other scopes with ranging reticles and cams for the 7.62x51mm, which work out to 800 meters. It is just easier at hunting ranges to keep it simple - aim and shoot. Snipers in WWII used scopes with no field adjustments and 2.5x, 4x, and 6x. In Vietnam, the .300 WM wore a 10x crosshair, no range finders. The biggest factor is familiarity with the sight picture so you don't have to think about it.

The main point that I, and others, are making, is that a 100 yard zero makes for too much drop, at 300 and 400, and too much figuring and knob twisting. Move that zero to 200 or 225 and the .30-06 will do all you need on gave the size of moose and eland.
 
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