.223

Amhuinnsuidhe

Well-Known Member
I'm looking at getting a new .223, do i go .223 or .223 wssm?
I used to have a Tikka T3 lite stainless but it shot like handling a cricket bat compared to my Sakos so i got rid. I love the calibre, especially the 50gr hornady ballistic tips i used to use, wonderful energy transfer. Is the wssm a better round or just a flash in the pan?
 
Well if you go .223 Rem then wherever you are you can have quite a lot of stuff off me that's just taking up room.

Never used the WSSM so no idea, but had a couple of .223s and got on very well with them. Plenty of velocity and very flat-shooting.
 
I would go 223 as it has readily available components and ammo. The wssm as already stated is more difficult to get components for and the ammo may not be readily available. MY mate has the 25wssm but getting brass for reloading is a nightmare, what is available is winchester (and that is crap brass).

The power from the wssm looks attractive, but that is all IMHO.

A couple of years ago the wssm's came down in price and a brand new winchester could be bought for less than £300. I would suggest that this is because the calibre never took off.
 
I would say stick with the excellent .223 Rem, if you feel the need for a hotter .224 cal then get a .22-250 Rem. JC
 
I had the same thoughts before settling on the standard rem 223. There is not a lot of choice of models in wssm. Ammo is limited and expensive. There were concerns about barrel wear although I do not know how many rounds were required? If you want extra velocity then go for 220 or 22-250 with 40gr ammo. Cheers.
 
I have T3 Lite in .308 it shoots fantastically well, comes from the same production line as your Sakos so therefore seems it a bit odd that the Sakos shot so much better :eek:
 
i have a .223 and love it,had it for 10 years now.cz american :D it loves foxes :D i would not swap it.
 
I love my .223 Remmy 700 SPS Varmint. I have put all sorts through it Barhaul, Priv, homeloads and never had any issues with it, gets a boresnake and back in the cabinet, good as gold everytime.
 
If you ARE thinking of the WSSM...then get a 22-250! It will still be around long after the WSSM has gone the way of the 225 Winchester!

New factory cartridges are like a "kite". Some fly and soar to the heights...others don't and crash when the first "puff" of hype dies down.

So why take the risk that in ten years time the "next best thing" may be unobtainable and worse for you unsaleable.
 
Ah yes, the great WSSM/WSM debate!

First of all, if you are thinking of buying a WSSM, or WSM at any stage, speak to someone who has one and uses it rather than people who have "heard this, or that".

I own a 243WSSM and a 300WSM and can't fault either. Brass is not hard to find, if you know where to look, and they are very re-load friendly.

There are no barrel wear problems over and above the standard, factory, cartridges, as the barrels were sorted after the first production run.

The only problem with a WSSM/WSM is finding decent amounts of factory ammo if you don't reload.

My advice? If you re-load, get a WSSM and you won't be disappointed. If you don't re-load, don't get one unless you can find, and afford, the ammo.
 
Sorry! Must disagree!!
I have used the 223 WSSM and it is an absolute turkey. It is inaccurate when compared to most other 22CF rounds and there have been huge feeding problems. It is one step away from becoming one of those cartridges that fell into obsolesence after being used by Winchester to temporarily boost rifle sales. I have had the mispleasure of using three different 223WSSM rifles and none shot worth a damn. A wast of powder and bullets. I know three of these rifles you can buy cheap here in Montana! ;)

I just got back from the 2010 SHOT Show (Shooting Hunting & Outdoor Trade Show) in Las Vegas and can tell you that there are no new rifles in WSSM calibers this year that i can find in the booths of the major manufacturers. This means that if you shoot a WSSM round, stock up on brass. They are going to go away after a while.

Just an observation.~Muir
 
Couldn't get to this year's Shot Show. Hope you had fun!
Like you say, Browning Winchester don't seem to be chambering 223 WSSM in any of their current rifles so if the proprietors don't rate it....

But then I found this on the Browning website in defence of the 223 WSSM:
(sorry..defective link..this should work)
http://www.browning.com/library/infonews/detail.asp?id=79

So why don't they chamber it in new rifles and why not run a fair test with .223Rem and .22-250 also with chrome-lined barrels. Hmmm...

Stick with .223 Rem.
 
I aint got a problem with your observation Muir :lol:

At least you have actual experience of the round and are not basing your advice on what you have read or heard. I believe in speak as you find, not speak as you once heard

As I said, I have two SM's and have had no probs with either. Both shoot less than 1MOA and have no feed problems at all. The 243 is a Win70 and the 300 a Howa1500

I agree brass may become a problem but if you shop cleverly it is available. I bought 1000 of each calibre and, as I shoot a max of 200 rounds each year, that gives me 5 years before each case gets its first reload. Plenty enough to see me into my grave!!
 
So you're speaking from experience? Russ, you've used the 223 WSSM?

I've also used 300 WSM and 270 WSM, but that doesn't qualify me to make other than observations for the 223 WSSM and speak from experience on the .223 Rem.

The question stands why would you buy a .223 WSSM when even the cartridge designer doesn't chamber new rifles for the cartridge? Glad you like your rifles, but they're not 223 WSSM unless I've read incorrectly?

ATB
 
Mauser66 said:
Couldn't get to this year's Shot Show. Hope you had fun!
Like you say, Browning Winchester don't seem to be chambering 223 WSSM in any of their current rifles so if the proprietors don't rate it....

But then I found this on the Browning website in defence of the 223 WSSM:
(sorry..defective link..this should work)
http://www.browning.com/library/infonews/detail.asp?id=79

So why don't they chamber it in new rifles and why not run a fair test with .223Rem and .22-250 also with chrome-lined barrels. Hmmm...

Stick with .223 Rem.

I was actually working at the SHOW this year so I only got to visit the exibitors inbetween business. There wasn't much new to see and the convention center at The Sands was cramped and elderly. In a word: You didn't miss much! No earthshaking developments.

As to the chrome barrel comment, it is because the 223WSSM is no more barrel friendly than other .224" rounds operating at the same pressures. Physics is Physics, eh? That was strictly a pitch for their rifles. I don't think Browning got behind the Winchester cartridge with any enthusiasm.

After visiting both Winchester and Remington at the SHOW I am convinced that their respective ammunition divisions are on an ever steepening glide path to bankruptcy. They may carry on with components but don't look to see many new cartridges. Winchester has never had luck with cartridges for which they didn't produce a weapon (9mm Win Mag, 45 Win Mag, 256 Win Mag: good rounds but commercial duds) and Remington has just rehashed old cartridges. The 17 Fireball is the Obrien Co. 17MachIV revisited and the 260 Remington was a wildcat made popular by (I believe) Ken Waters. Both were no brainers. I was walking past Winchester's display and commented to the engineer I was with that a sure sign of a gun company going bust is having 90% of their display area covered with foreign made guns and cheap sports wear. He agreed. I know that both of these outfits have been trying to farm-out their rimfire production for some time with no success. ~Muir
 
Mauser66 said:
So you're speaking from experience? Russ, you've used the 223 WSSM?
ATB

Sorry, I should have made it a little more clear.

I do not own a 223WSSM neither have I owned one. I have shot one, and still do now and again, and I reload for it on almost a monthly basis. It shoots as well as the rest of the 223's in the club, and has no feed problems.
I also reload for a 7mm WSSM and a 270WSSM also with no problems, tho the 270 did have a problem initially with accuracy. This was traced to a bad batch of brass and, once all had been fireformed, trimmed and cleaned, it shoots great.
 
First of all, if you are thinking of buying a WSSM, or WSM at any stage, speak to someone who has one and uses it rather than people who have "heard this, or that".

I don't think that it is totally true. What I and others have is long experience of seeing the "latest star in the firmanent" arrive, burn brightly, then fade and sometimes die out.

225 Winchester, 222 Remington Magnum, 8mm Remington Magnum, 375 Winchester, 358 Norma Magnum, 45 Winchester Magnum. All effectively down if not yet out.

Now WSSM may be super efficient faster than the 22-250 and a good design doesn't guarantee anything. To whit 280 Remington vs 270 Winchester and 244 Remington vs 243 Winchester, the 7mm Sharpe and Hart vs 7mm Remington Magnumand Hart and 308 Norma Magnum vs 300 Winchester Magnum.

So I'd still go with the 223 for this reason alone...if you want to sell it you will more easily find a buyer. I can just remember when the 220 Swift was once considered an "ideal" long range stalking cartridge! And now?

If new rifles are no longer being chambered by the parent company I'd for one just make mental note before spending my money. Unlike the punters that bought into the 5mm Magnum Rimfire.

And just exactly what can you do in real terms with a WSSM that you can't do with a 22-250?
 
enfieldspares said:
I don't think that it is totally true. What I and others have is long experience of seeing the "latest star in the firmanent" arrive, burn brightly, then fade and sometimes die out.

The question, if I remember rightly was asking for a comparision and knowledge of a 223 vs a 223wssm. It was not asking if anyone has seen some cartridges come and go. I could also have mentioned cartridges that have come and gone, as I could have waxed lyrical about many things over my 30+ years of shooting all types of pistol, rifle and shotgun

enfieldspares said:
And just exactly what can you do in real terms with a WSSM that you can't do with a 22-250?

Irrelevant to the discussion

Its just as easy to say what exactly can a 308 do that a 6.5 or a 270 cant do. They can quite happily take everything from fox to a big red stag.

The guy wanted to compare and contrast two cartridge types and asked for info from people who had knowledge of them. Thats what, IMHO, he got from me.
 
Whoa there, Russ. No-one's disputing experience or knowledge or anything like that, from whatever background, professional trade or sporting or otherwise we all have input and observations.
It's an interesting question...223 WSSM and 223 Rem etc. and I do think that the apparent commercial flop of 223 WSSM is entirely relevant.
I haven't used 223 WSSM so can't comment on the cartridge performance. But I can comment as someone who works in the industry that there are problems ahead as Muir pointed out. We're looking at a period of consolidation...of product lines and manufacturing. Just my observation as I see the primary costs of ammunition production ever day.
I hope things won't get too bad for us, but it doesn't look too healthy right now.
 
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