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Thread: Mentoring - can they enforce it?

  1. #1

    Mentoring - can they enforce it?

    I spoke to my FEO today about my variation, after he decided I needed a couple more stalking outings before he comes for a visit he said he wanted to be sure because he said even if he wanted me to be supervised the first few outings he couldn't enforce it.

    I double checked and he said mentoring conditions are not enforceable or legally binding. This is not what I gathered from this site and others, so what's the deal?

  2. #2
    The deal is that some police forces put it down as a recommendation or try to enforce it. If your FEO is saying he cannot enforce it, then accept the variation and dont query it any further as it is not a legal requirement.

    It does not matter what is said on here, just go with the FEO of your area.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jingzy
    It does not matter what is said on here, just go with the FEO of your area.
    And what if the FEO is totally off the wall in what they try and stipulate?

    If I had listened to the FEO who visited me in October last year, I wouldn't be in possession of my FAC or stalking now! A good job the FLO in the office had some idea of how the Firearms Act should be administered.

    At least that one is honest in saying he can't enforce something that isn't even a requirement!

  4. #4
    The orthodox and probably, from the point of view of wanting a peaceful, untroubled, rifle-owning existence, eminently sensible view is that we comply with the presumed intention of the Chief Constable's discretionary conditions on our FACs.

    The little article by George Wallace in Shooting Times in 2007 (reproduced on post 31 here: )
    suggests that the exact wording of the condition would determine its force, or lack of, in law.

    On the whole we like shooting and dislike the idea of being test-case martyrs, so in general it is probably more sensible to comply with the intention of conditions; and if they are inconveniently restrictive, ask politely (with compelling supporting evidence/opinion) for them to be removed or amended.

    I think the Firearms Act and the Guidance would both support the idea that the Police should be satisfied that the applicant is 'fit to be entrusted with a firearm...' before grant, and that therefore the 'mentoring' condition, with the implication that the Police aren't sure of the applicant's fitness, has no role.

    As to the FEO requiring evidence of further supervised stalking outings before grant, that might, depending on the applicant's circumstances, be entirely appropriate.
    However, if he wants evidence of 'a couple more', one might wonder what exactly he wants you to achieve in those outings. It isn't his job to make sure you can stalk a bit; only that you're fit to be entrusted with a firearm.

  5. #5
    ok so it really is a load of BS - a mentoring condition is basically meaningless? So all these people with mentoring conditions can in know way stopped from shooting on their own?

    I'm certainly not going to question it, although he is being difficault about my variation, he is trying his hardest to persuade me to wait for a few months, but he will call me in a couple of weeks to see how much more experience I've gained. So he may shift yet...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by harrygrey382
    ok so it really is a load of BS - a mentoring condition is basically meaningless? So all these people with mentoring conditions can in no way stopped from shooting on their own?
    I really don't know. I wouldn't want to test the hypothesis. FEOs are not necessarily always accurate in matters of law, but the encouraging thing here is that no 'mentoring condition' is being applied.

    I think that 'mentoring conditions' are a bad thing. I have written as much on here in the past.

  7. #7


    Hi Harry,
    I was asked by a member of this site if I would be willing to mentor him. In a nutshell I refused.
    Had it come to the crunch I told him I would reconsider, but only as a last resort. The reason was as follows:-

    I have held an FAC for five years and also hold the DSC1. I have perhaps shot 100 ish deer in that time.

    The guy I was being asked to mentor was a retired Captain in the British army. He had trained soldiers in firearms safety and handling. he had carried a loaded firearm in a public place, albeit in a military operation. He was also a range officer.

    Now tell me who is taking care of who in this relationship?

    Strangely enough when this was firmly but politely put over to his FEO, the licence was issued.

    Good luck,


  8. #8
    It's Good Reason , it's not about want to have!!!! how many stalks you have done or mentoring
    The wording is Good Reason, if you have no criminal record,land with deer on that you can legally shoot over by payment or invite and of sound mind then they should grant not put more hoops to jump through in your way.
    You must have these because you have an FAC as you are asking for a variation.
    They should be taking the stand point that you will be granted your variation

    13.6 “Good reason” should be neither
    confined to need nor equated with desire.
    Most firearm certificate holders possess
    firearms for reasons of their profession,
    sport or recreation, and may properly wish
    to exercise discretion as to what types of
    firearms they choose for these purposes.
    On the other hand, a simple wish to own
    a particular sort of firearm is not in itself
    “good reason” without further supporting
    evidence of intentions. Chief officers of
    police should be mindful of case law
    (Anderson v Neilans (1940) and Joy v Chief
    Constable of Dumfries and Galloway (1966))
    which suggests that the chief officer should
    consider the application firstly “from the
    standpoint of the applicant rather than from
    that of a possible objector”. “Good reason”
    will need to be demonstrated for each firearm
    to be held under section 1 of the 1968 Act.

    If you have somewhere with Deer on that is legal where's his problem!!!!!!

  9. #9
    well his problem, is that I need to have experience using a "high powered rifle in this country" - the fact I have used one culling cattle in Australia is he says irrelevant.

    He never at any point said anything definite, just used words like "prefer" and "would be best", and when I mentioned BASC he got defensive. And the more I pressed, the more he gave. Because he says he'll call back in a couple of weeks, and because two SD members are giving a very wlecome helping hand, I'm just going to go along with itin the interests of staying in their good books. If he starts being difficult after that I may start quoting HO guidlines and asking BASC for a helping hand...

    Thanks for the help guys, I feel I will get the variation eventually

  10. #10
    I was asked to have a mentor, contacted BASC Firearms people, they had a word with the Chief Constable and the requirement disappeared.

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