FAC and SGC a right or privilidge

billh

Well-Known Member
The US has a right to bear arms, the UK did 400 years ago but then swords, spears etc. were the norm.
Do you regard your FAC or SGC to be a right or a privilege? ;)
 
We do technically have a right to bear arms but the goverment has trampled all over it , technically yes it's a right but in practice a privilege
 
An interesting question.
The words '...shall be granted...' in the Act suggest that having shown (to different degrees for SGC and FAC, admittedly) good reason to possess and the ability to possess the firearm/s without risk to the public, that there is an entitlement to be granted the certificate.

Indeed, why are these things called 'certificate' rather than 'licence'?
My suspicion is that the folk who drafted the Act in 1920 were aware that British subjects have authority under common law/Bill of Rights to possess arms. The 'certificate' therefore is a document certifying that the holder is a fit person to exercise that right, and not a 'licence' which gives permission to do so.
Does that make any kind of sense?

The old 'Gun Licence' (1870 Act) did indeed give permission to carry a gun outside the curtiledge of the owner's dwelling-house. No restriction on purchase or possession resulted, and AFAIK, there were numenrous exemptions for Game-licence holders, vermin-shooters and so on.

Jimbo is more succinct:
We do technically have a right to bear arms but the goverment has trampled all over it , technically yes it's a right but in practice a privilege
but I must say that I have never felt it a priveledge to have FAC or SGC. If it is indeed a priveledge in practice, then the blame for that should probably be shared among any shooters and FLD-employees who behave as if it were.
 
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It is a right, provided that you satisfy certain criteria. Just like a driving licence.

My understanding is that a driving licence is not a good comparison.
There is no basic 'right' to drive motor vehicle on the highway. It is an activity prohibited except to those who hold a licence, or document permitting that activity.
I think that although on the face of it it looks very similar, the Firearms Act with its certificates is taking account of a basic right to possess arms.
 
totally different concept,
we are authorised to possess firearms and shotguns
for target and sporting shooting,
NOT as an armed militia, which was the norm
in the USA ( 2nd ammendment)(now slowly being eroded)

I think only highlanders and sikhs can now bear arms
when in national costume
 
Be it a Subject’s right or not, I take the view of being fortunate to have been granted an FAC and most certainly privileged to deploy those firearms allowed for therein in pursuance of my passion for hunting with a rifle.

K
 
I was always lead to believe (possibly misguidedly) that it was a statutory right to own a shotgun in this country provided there was no reason or justification not to..... and that it was for the authorities to prove if you were not deemed suitable?
not so the case with FAC's though.
I may well be proved wrong (yes, it does happen albeit very infrequently)
 
I feel I am lucky and privileged to have the means and opportunity to hold firearms and be involved with Deer Stalking/Management in the way that I am.

For me this is where privilege ends and rights begin. Provided I behave myself and there is no increased threat to the public by me holding firearms then I have every right to be granted whatever I ask for within reason.

I don't get the attitude some certificate holders have where they think they have to brown nose their local licensing clerk. Be polite and helpful but also know the law, what you are entitled to and stick to your guns when you need to (scuse the pun).
 
I agree that it is a right, albeit one subject to stringent conditions. I suspect that the authorities would much prefer it to be deemed to be a privilege.

atb Tim
 
I think only highlanders and sikhs can now bear arms
when in national costume

As a national dress by law any culture that has a weapon as part of their customary dress has the right to bear that weapon providing it is of that order for instance you would not be allowed to put a stanley knife down your kilt socks and pretend it is part of that dress, however, a tradesman may have in his pocession that as a tool not a weapon.

Also it is however illegal for say someone in Highland dress or a sikh to have such items on their possession in a licensed premises and that goes for north and south of the border, if asked to hand over such items when entering a premises then you must comply with the request or be refused entry.
 
I certainly agree with the comment about so many feeling the need to brown nose their way to preferred firearm c/o the local FLO.

All this angst one reads on here about will he/she/they allow something with a bit more zip & poke is beyond (no pun intended!) me when, frankly, the only limiting factor is the backstop and shooter's ability to call them.

If I want twenty seven 22 Hornets and I can store them safely I should be allowed them. Surely?

K
 
If I want twenty seven 22 Hornets and I can store them safely I should be allowed them. Surely?

K

I would guess that most people with FAC's also have a SGC. In theory you could amass a vast arsenal of shotguns and stock pile ammunition for them but I have never met anyone who has.

atb Tim
 
I certainly agree with the comment about so many feeling the need to brown nose their way to preferred firearm c/o the local FLO.

All this angst one reads on here about will he/she/they allow something with a bit more zip & poke is beyond (no pun intended!) me when, frankly, the only limiting factor is the backstop and shooter's ability to call them.

If I want twenty seven 22 Hornets and I can store them safely I should be allowed them. Surely?

K

12 years ago I let my FAC run out , i had no rifles and was working security and on the road a lot so I did not need it, well when I asked for it back not long back I had to brown nose to the extreme. I am a licensed doorman, I work daily with high sensitive material so criminal checks are not unusual for me to go through with having various MOD and DWP work in the past. I am also PVG Scheme approved to work with young people and vulnerable groups and I still had to jump through hoops to get my tickets back. I was asked by my local officer to put my cabinet in a very strange place meaning I had to secure that area further and even BASC asked questions when I said that to them. Everyone told me I should get BASC involved but I thought that would just delay the approval. After cabinet all secure measures cost me £1000

It is harder to get an open FAC now which I needed, so if you need to do a bit of brown nosing to local police then nothing wrong with it, However because of we have to jump through these hoops it becomes more of a privilage than a right unfortunately.


The number of illegal firearms out there out-weight ones that are deemed legal, after WWII every farmer and their dog had a rifle or a shotgun and have been kept in cupboards so they are easy to come across. These people who have them believe they have a right to keep them when they do not with out authorisation..
 
I would guess that most people with FAC's also have a SGC. In theory you could amass a vast arsenal of shotguns and stock pile ammunition for them but I have never met anyone who has.

atb Tim

Yes. But also, if thats what someone wanted to do why shouldn't they!? Would they pose any more threat to the public?
 
Be it a Subject’s right or not, I take the view of being fortunate to have been granted an FAC and most certainly privileged to deploy those firearms allowed for therein in pursuance of my passion for hunting with a rifle.

K

Can't argue with that.
Also, do we really want the same system as the USA? Really?
 
Can't argue with that.
Also, do we really want the same system as the USA? Really?

Definately not , However I would like some restrictions lifted on what can be owned but am no bothered, I like the fact I have bot SGC and FAC I asked the calibres I wanted .22 .243 and .270 which in my opinion is the best range of calibres for everything I would need from a rifle, I would however like to add a slot for a second .22 so I could have both rf and cf but dont like the hassle of variation, I also like the fact that the police in this country (well they did with me) almost insist on moderators unlike th U.S where they are either illegal or discouraged.
 
And wouldn't we all as of writing like to be in the position of stockpiling ammunition/reloading components and for very sound reason?

Pass me those last 5000 V-Max 35 grainers!

K
 
We don't have the right to bear arms as such (like in the U.S), but we do have the right to own rifles or shotguns for sporting purposes... there's a big difference.
 
Its a right, which is sadly getting diluted more and more unless we start standing up for it !
 
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