RTA distpatch

cookingfat

Well-Known Member
• 22/04. Incident xx attended by Xxx Mature Muntjac buck trapped in car radiator grille with only head and one leg visible. Vehicle parked on garage forecourt. Muntjac dispatched with knife due to location and ricochet hazard. Police in attendance. No issues raised.

Just thought you might like to see what Hampshire's HAD teams have to sometimes deal with as part of the voluntary efforts,
i have removed the incident number and the persons details and the location.

i know there many some SD members who don't like helping without payment and that's there view, but here in the Hampshire there are 60-70 members who help when asked for nothing, but too giving a little back to the sport we love.

tony
 
Folding silenced .410 with 9 grams of No.6 shot. No exit so no ricochet risk. Less traumatic for all concerned and less danger to the dispatcher. About as noisy as a springer air rifle which is perfect for urban use. Every RTA/Humane dispatcher should have one!
MS
 
Folding silenced .410 with 9 grams of No.6 shot. No exit so no ricochet risk. Less traumatic for all concerned and less danger to the dispatcher. About as noisy as a springer air rifle which is perfect for urban use. Every RTA/Humane dispatcher should have one!
MS
some good and interesting comments, but I don't think every member of Hampshire's team is going to have a captive bolt or a silenced folding 410 just in case he gets a deer stuck in someone's car, A knife is perfectly acceptable and is in the best practice,
But I do agree with MS about the 410 being probably the best tool for the job as most people do have one in there cabinet, but getting it silenced would be costly if it could be done at all.

cervus look forward to meeting you on the 22nd.

Tony
 
I've got a captive bolt and a .410 but it's not moderated! Got one of these as well!
 

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Please do not encourage the use of a knife. It should be at the tail end of weapons to use. Captive bolt first, then a light load in a .410 is very adequate. A .22 short may have been OK. Noise is a secondary issue that can be overcome by waiting for the right moment, even captive bolts make a noise. At least mine does but its very old.
 
My old head keeper used his hushpower .410 for humane dispatch on calves, pigs and deer at various times at anything from 1" to 1yard. Very effective. I've just recently part/x'd mine or else I'd have offered it on here for someone to put to good use.
 
Please do not encourage the use of a knife. It should be at the tail end of weapons to use. Captive bolt first, then a light load in a .410 is very adequate. A .22 short may have been OK. Noise is a secondary issue that can be overcome by waiting for the right moment, even captive bolts make a noise. At least mine does but its very old.
Billh,
it doesn't have much to do with encouraging people to use a knife,
its there as a tool to be used,if it is appropriate,
each RTA call out is different, the person who attended this one is very experienced and has attended many,
he was called out by the police, when he arrived at the sense he took control and used his experience and judgement to end the suffering of the muntjac as quickly and safely as possible.

its very easy to sit in our armchairs and say what we might have done...!

Tony
 
some good and interesting comments, but I don't think every member of Hampshire's team is going to have a captive bolt or a silenced folding 410 just in case he gets a deer stuck in someone's car, A knife is perfectly acceptable and is in the best practice,
But I do agree with MS about the 410 being probably the best tool for the job as most people do have one in there cabinet, but getting it silenced would be costly if it could be done at all.

cervus look forward to meeting you on the 22nd.

Tony
I think if you sign up for it you should be prepared and equipped to do the best job possible. My Pedretti 410 cost £125 and I must have done a good 125 call outs. A useful tool to have which is also probably worth more than I paid for it! A good investment if you ask me.
 
Cookingfat there is no suggestion that you did anything wrong. Each RTC may be different but it is the public perception that will define how any future RTC's are dealt with. I have used a knife once in around 15 years of dealing with deer dispatch. It made an awful mess, bear in mind blood is an animal byproduct and must be thoroughly removed. Therefore as much of it as possible should be retained in the body if at all possible. I'm not an armchair activist I'm just trying to avoid issues that could affect the way in which humaness is viewed and RTC's dealt with to ensure this task remains with experienced people. Personally I have never made a charge for this work whatever time of day or night I have been called out.
 
Agreed MS, I have been doing rta's since 1976 and mostly have used my little folding 410, but as I said its easy to say sat in our armchairs and say how it should be done,Each case is different and this one was one for the knife behind a screen.

Billh if you made lot of mess with the knife I think you did it wrong,
Check out the best practice guide on the DI web site for more info.

Tony
 
I think if you sign up for it you should be prepared and equipped to do the best job possible. My Pedretti 410 cost £125 and I must have done a good 125 call outs. A useful tool to have which is also probably worth more than I paid for it! A good investment if you ask me.


MS

This is not aimed at you, but I feel the need for a rant....

Would that I could "sign up for it"! Where is the dotted line? Is it on DMQ's website??


It is great to hear of the exemplary work being done in Gloucestershire, Suffolk and Hampshire, but does no-one else think that the inconsistency across the country in how deer RTA's are handled is bizarre at best and shocking at worst? Are deer in other counties somehow less worthy? Do they not suffer as much?


I have read a number of threads recently where received opinion on RTA's would appear to be "leave it to the professionals", but can anyone tell me who these professionals are? The ARU's, vets, farmers, stalkers?? How does one join this elusive profession? How do the HAD groups get established? Where does the responsibility lie?


Notwithstanding the excellent work being done by both individuals and existing HAD groups, I find it somewhat strange that we congratulate the stalker who puts an injured deer out of misery should he encounter it out stalking, but if that same stalker expresses an interest in being able to humanely destroy a deer injured in an RTA, the brickbats start flying. Put simply, why is there not more of an outcry from the deer stalking community about sorting out RTA's?


What compels us as stalkers to, on the one hand, establish wonderful organisations for tracking dogs to recover injured deer, whilst on the other we apparently bury our heads in the sand about the fate of some 74,000 deer involved in RTA's each year? Is it that deer in the former are typically our responsibility (after all, we took the shot so we need to be seen to clear up the resulting problem) whereas the latter are caused by some anonymous idiot driver? Do you think the deer, however it might have been injured, appreciates the difference?

Thank you, rant over. I feel a lot better for that.


willie_gunn
 
Notwithstanding the excellent work being done by both individuals and existing HAD groups, I find it somewhat strange that we congratulate the stalker who puts an injured deer out of misery should he encounter it out stalking, but if that same stalker expresses an interest in being able to humanely destroy a deer injured in an RTA, the brickbats start flying. Put simply, why is there not more of an outcry from the deer stalking community about sorting out RTA's?


What compels us as stalkers to, on the one hand, establish wonderful organisations for tracking dogs to recover injured deer, whilst on the other we apparently bury our heads in the sand about the fate of some 74,000 deer involved in RTA's each year? Is it that deer in the former are typically our responsibility (after all, we took the shot so we need to be seen to clear up the resulting problem) whereas the latter are caused by some anonymous idiot driver? Do you think the deer, however it might have been injured, appreciates the difference?

Thank you, rant over. I feel a lot better for that.


willie_gunn

+1 on all that - apart from the "anonymous idiot driver...". TBF, sometimes the deerare their own worst enemies. Deprived of access to daytime television they aren't always up to speed with the latest pedestrian road safety messages.....
 
Tony in Somerset we are expressly told to never use a knife at an RTA when we sign up due to public perception, personally I think they have their place as in this case.
 
Cookingfat. My last post referred to making a mess in cutting four blood vessels, no I did not do it wrong, the animal being alive at the time bled out causing the mess.
 
willie _gunn and others tell me how to convince hierarchy in police forces that many stalkers and gamekeepers are best suited to carryout dispatch as we learn about organ position in animals and use the tools for the job almost daily.
whereas police firearms units only use fmj ammunition and are often not trained in Hd.
I tried for years in all three Yorkshire forces to no effect.
 
I have read a number of threads recently where received opinion on RTA's would appear to be "leave it to the professionals", but can anyone tell me who these professionals are? The ARU's, vets, farmers, stalkers?? How does one join this elusive profession? How do the HAD groups get established? Where does the responsibility lie?

As a vet I am responsible for my own actions. I have means at my disposal that you don't (lethal injection). I have a captive bolt in the car. I like shotguns as a means. Personally (and I know it's in the BPG and I discussed this with my Level 2 witness) I do not believe that cutting an animals throat is a nice thing to do. I would see it as an absolute last resort after everything else had failed, and only ever consider it if the animal was unconscious and insensitive. I'd rather hit it over the head with a hammer.

I can see a prosecution for causing unnecessary suffering from someone messing up the knife method.

I don't think this should be a job for the man who does a little recreational deer stalking. It's needs to be someone who's either doing the job professionally or shooting a lot of deer. I don't personally shoot many deer after RTAs but I am shooting cows/sheep/horses every week, sometimes multiple per day. I'm used to the highly stressed situations. If the police ring me to attend they discharge ALL responsibility to me. If I mess up, if I cause the animal to suffer etc it's all down to me. I have a professional registration to uphold and that is potentially at threat if my actions were negligent or caused suffering. If the police 'run' the scheme then they shoulder some responsibility. If they discharge the responsibility to someone who is a recreational deer stalker can the police defend themselves that they passed the call onto a suitable individual?

We have to think in the case of 'what if it doesn't all go to plan'.

I think the police are really brave letting recreational stalkers out to do the work, and I think many people are misguided and under-prepared for the work.

I'd I'm going from home I would take the 12G OR the .410 and a deer rifle. I have the bolt gun in the car. I might or might not have the pistol with me. I will have the means to inject the deer.
 
Apache . You are spot on with what you are saying . It takes about a minute for an animal to bleed out (till the heart stops pumping) and how many people are experienced in this process. So a blunt knife hacking at the neck is no way to end its suffering and also theres the kicking out of the animal. So your spot on with either shooting or jagging...scott
 
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