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Thread: Managing Permissions.

  1. #1

    Managing Permissions.

    I have had a heck of a time today and although I really should not be posting on here about it I do hope someone will learn from my mistakes about managing permissions specially those who you take on your permission with you.

    I have one personal permission , 500 acres of mixed field, improved grass, hill and woodland so the shooting is varied and so is wildlife. It is situated ,arguably, in one of the most unique and beautiful areas the Highlands of Scotland could ever offer with views to the western Mountains of Affric, Mullardoch and Strathfarrer and to the south over Loch Ness.

    On occasion I do offer people out for a days shooting crows or out lamping foxes mainly for the company as it can be pretty lonely work if you haven't got someone wandering with you but most of the hours work I put in and the money is on my own time and expenses. The ground I shoot has up until today had numerous guns with permission (unknown to me when I took it over). One person I took out as a lamping buddy went without consulting me first asked the owner for permission to shoot on their own, thinking the reason for the request was because of legal reasons for that person being with me the owner granted the permission, after they got the permission from her they then informed me what they done (thoughts on this would be appreciated) and made regular visits to the farm without my knowledge.

    The reason for me saying up until today there were numerous permits granted is because there has to be action taken to limit the access of shooters to the fields. So all permissions have been revoked per contact with myself.

    I had a phone call from the landowner this morning asking why I had put tyre tracks all over the top of one of her silage fields (after me knowing the fields had just been fertilised and prepped for growing) on Monday night, I explained I had not been out since Friday as it has been too foggy to lamp and that I did not know whos it was, her response was of shock as she lives on the farm on her own. I told her I would try and find out who it was. Well needless to say on investigation I was met with certain amounts of hostility and deniability from the parties I contacted only to find that the farm hand while at a friends house noticed my lamping buddys vehicle passing the farm (up until that conversation today I was under the impression he did not atend the farm without my knowledge alone), when I questioned him if it was him that was up there his reply to me way as follows

    "I do not know what nights I have been up there" and "how would (the farm hands name) know if I was at the farm as I always go there after midnight"

    It is not my place to question other shooter behaviors although the initial accusation was towards myself and that the farm owner has left it in my hands to sort it out.,

    Well needless to say after today and in discussion with the farm owner (of whom my goal was to help them out with fox and crow problems not hugely interested at the moment in deer) I have been instructed to erect signs saying that all permissions are now cancelled and anyone wanting to shoot has to contact me first.

    I feel though that I am burning friendships and oppertunities by taking this task on and I really do not want to cause any problems but it seems I have no choice.

    all thoughts welcome.

    atb Tulloch
    Last edited by Tulloch; 21-05-2014 at 17:39.

  2. #2
    I feel for you, had it happen to me in the last and it's upsetting that people take advantage.
    id say you are doing the right thing, and if you lose friend over it then maybe it's better that you know what they're really like.
    Last edited by palmer_mike; 21-05-2014 at 18:11.

  3. #3
    I really do not want to cause any problems but it seems I have no choice.

    Seems to me you know exactly what you have to do. Or walk away from your permission............

  4. #4
    walking away from the permission is not a choice I have invested over 4000 now in working that permission with almost no chance of return and if you include my time away from my wife, three boys and new born baby girl then I cannot make a costing over it. I am sure many of you have put time and effort and money into your permissions.

    You know the sad thing is I love hunting but my real passion is pest control the deer to me is just a bonus and a chance to recoup atleast some of my outgoings and I am looking at it as a long term plan as having my own ground gives me experience in stalking (which I do still need greatly) the confidence without criticism and a chance to manage my own wildlife habitat without paying for an expensive lease as equipment and fuel costs soon add up.

    I am not afraid of confrontation as I have been a doorman for 17 years so confrontation is normal for me but I do trust sometimes way too easy.

  5. #5
    Sounds very underhand to me, best get the problem out of the equation, first and foremost they were only there as your guest.

  6. #6
    Your lamping buddy was clearly taking the p..s and would now be an ex lamping buddy, as for the others id say you have done the right thing putting signs out so long as the landowner backs you up !!

  7. #7

  8. #8
    One of the pitfalls of not having a legal contract and then thinking the ground is yours which is not. You say you have spent mega money on the ground without any security over the land... On what and do you expect to hang on to the shoot?

  9. #9
    in my opinion you should tell all lads concerned in no uncertain words that you/land owner knows someones been on fekd some feilds up so now its, a closed shop because some tool messed it up,she doesnt want anybody on and if she sees any lamps vehicles she will be on phone to the plod , hopefully they might clear off ,but you never know its worth a try ,atb doug,

  10. #10
    The money has been mainly consumable which I never expect to get back , I agreed with the land owner to do pest control for her and help out , again my problem. I expected there to be other guns on the permission which was never a problem to me . My problem is that the ownership of blame when something goes wrong seems to be falling on my door which I can understand however when something happens and I have no knowledge of it then I cannot stand back and take the brunt. If it was I that made a mistake and put tyre tracks all over her field then I would have admitted and apologised, but I see the farmers point if I am saying it was not me and all the permissions have said it wasnt them even though one was spotted in the area she has a full right to be worried and ask questions on what else is going on.

    The area is under scrutiny by the authorities after a big hill fire and a number of poaching incidents but none of the other permission holders seem to be bothered about anything but deer. She has fields that she uses as crop for winter feed and because our jeeps can go everywhere does not mean that they should.

    To save in a way my own ass and my rights to shoot there she has put the ball in my court to sort it out as her being a 61 year old woman on her own with only a 20 year old farm hand/manager that comes during the day for help to run the farm. Time and money is truly irrelevant it is security and safety. if no one knows who is on the ground someone will eventually get hurt so this is the only way I know that will sort it all out and monitor it.

    I am local to the area of my permission although I do not live locally so if something goes wrong up on the farm in regards to shooting then I am the one who is the first port of call for the authorities and I do not need that kind of grief.

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