Rifle, Scope and Bino's..help!!

rigboot

Well-Known Member
Hi folks,

Firstly, sorry for another "what" type thread, but there isn't a better place to ask than the good number of guys and girls who are out ther doing it and not keyboard hunters!!

I have recently been offered a wonderful opportunity to assist a local part time stalker to look after a plantation development scheme (which he holds the sole stalking rights to) which is currently scheduled to last until at least 2014/15 for the replanting phases etc

It is mostly lowland/hill type forestry, some already opened and cleared, and some mature dense areas which is surrounded with open moor edging, and Roe will be our primary target.

Now, I have a list of things which I am moving slowly ahead with ie DSC1 & FAC etc & I know it’s jumping the gun somewhat, however, the hardwear bit is probably the bit we all like!!!

I would value your opinions (Pro’s and Con’s) on my rough list for my 3 main items (assuming my FAC is approved) and to see how suitable you think they’d be :

Rifle:
.243 Tikka T3 Synthetic/Stainless, or
.243 Sako 85 Synth/Stnless

(with moderator for either)

Do I go for the Tikka T3 and put the price difference towards my scope budget & get the the best possible scope I can? What is the old saying? “ buy a scope and a gun with the change”

Also, what’s your opinions on a suitable moderator for the above rifle? Ase type or T8??

Scope
:
S&B Fixed Mag 8 x 56??
Oh here we go…this is where my knowledge is severely limited, I have been looking at various post’s on here and although I have nothing to base this on my initial thought was to keep it simple but efficient with a fixed scope?
What’s the general consensus of this amount of mag etc for woodland type dawn/dusk stalking?

Or should I be looking at variable power and a Swaro or a Leupold?
I appreciate there are a multitude of opinions on scopes and having read all the “Which Scope” threads, I am still pretty much none the wiser!!

Binos:
Minox HG 8.5 x 43
As I won’t be on the hill day in day out and more of a recreational assistant than full on stalker, I was looking at the Minox’s as a decent benchmark "recreational" pair of glasses, again I know this is a widely discussed point but again I’d appreciate any input.

What i'm trying to say is this, basically, I’m looking to put together a long term, good standard, basic kit so I can then spend my time wisely by getting to know the rifle etc. in the knowledge that my equipment is more than proficient for the task in hand before I even venture out to start shooting beasts

It’s a bit of a minefield to be honest but, if I can get a decent set up for a modest price for the 3 main items above, I would be happy with that.

List is by no means definitive, just my initial thoughts

Thanks in advance

Rigboot
:D
 
I am far from experienced in this sport, however I was in the same position as you the 2nd half of last year.

I went for a Tikka t3 (6.5x55) with a T8 Mod already fitted with a new 8x56 Hungarian S&B Scope, the rifle and mod were 2nd hand but in as new condition all in for £1050 including a set of rings and a rifle slip.

Binos I brought a pair of Bushnell H2o to start with, however I picked up a pair of Swarvo 7x42 SLC for £700 used twice in one week by the previous owner.

I asked on here ( I think) about Hungarian and German S & B scopes and apparently the difference is not worth worrying about.

Check Gun Trader for rifles.

HTH

Gareth
 
if it helps i bought minox 8.5x43 hg from clifton cameras for £380 which should leave you some good money for your rifle + mod,good luck.
 
Hi Rigboot,

I will leave it to others to advise on the rifle but I do feel that you would do well to go for a fixed-mag scope for the type of work you describe. Keep it simple - you are not going to be trying fancy or long-range shooting for a while! With an 8x56, a deer is going to fill your scope at shorter ranges - and magnify any "wobbles" significantly. You might actually be better with a 6x42 (old gits like me still stalk happily with a 4x32!). Any suitable S&B/Zeiss/Swaro etc scope will do you well.

For the binos, the Minox are great but have a look through their BV 8x42 before you spend the extra on the HG 8.5x43 - they are sturdy and great value.

Hope this helps.

Graeme
 
Well gents,

Lots to think about and I must thank you for taking the time to reply.

It all certainly helps and I will indeed check out the suggested alternatives too.

The old information superhighway is taking a pounding with the research i'm doing at the moment but thanks to the forum, there's not many places I need to look for assistance.

Thanks again and keep the suggestions coming!!

Rb
 
All good advice - but do consider a larger calibre.

Not because you need it for Roe - but the day may well come when you appreciate a bit more authority.

My girlfriend (eight stone, dripping wet) started hunting with a .308 and years later, it is still her favourite. Since the day she considered Roe to be the prime target, she has taken Moose, Wild Boar, Kudu etc with the same 'do it all' calibre. The same rifle has proved ideal for Spitting Cobra and Beaver!

Downloaded or moderated, it will have less recoil than a standard .243 - but with the option of better performance IF required.

Remember, you can make the big ones act like little ones - but not the other way around!

Rgds

Ian :)
 
Graeme M is right.
I've had a Zeiss variable on my Heym for over 30 years how many times has it been of 6 power? Never. I have bought a S&B All singing, all danceing scope for my Mauser I turn the power down most of the time and the rest os the time its on 6 power.
 
IanF said:
Remember, you can make the big ones act like little ones - but not the other way around!

Rgds

Ian :)


:D Like that quote Ian, I hear what you are saying with repesct to a larger calibre.

This was the calibre suggested to me by the stalker who's land i'll be on so I am taking his lead on this point really, he knows what works best for his ground ,although I do understand the varied opinions for larger (or sometimes smaller) calibres being more versatile for Roe and other species.

Personally, I'll see how I get on with the .243 and be happy putting in the hours to get familiar with the rifle and as proficient as possible but, you never know, maybe ask for a variation in the future!!!


Cheers

Rb
 
Jagare said:
Graeme M is right.
I've had a Zeiss variable on my Heym for over 30 years how many times has it been of 6 power? Never. I have bought a S&B All singing, all danceing scope for my Mauser I turn the power down most of the time and the rest os the time its on 6 power.


Good stuff Jagare, I was thinking of Graeme's reply and looking at the available 6 x S&B's
Exactly why I asked the question for feedback like this, I want to buy right once!!

Thanks

Rb
 
Sorry :D

Strathclyde were happy to put 2 on my first application, one for vermin and small deer and one for larger spieces.
 
GarethW said:
Sorry :D

Strathclyde were happy to put 2 on my first application, one for vermin and small deer and one for larger spieces.

Now that is interesting.

It'll be Strathclyde who i'll be dealing with too, always found them hassle free for my SGC and renewals, food for thought indeed.
Cheers

Rb
 
As for the binoculars may I suggest this. If you have an RSPB reserve within fairly easy reach it would be worth taking a look at their shop. They normally have optics trial days where you can try them out in the field.

Some of their makes might be unfamilar to us stalkers but the birders are equally critical in their perfomance so this and the chance to actually try them out on the reserve makes it good time spent.

Now as to scopes to those already suggested I would add the Meopta scopes and agree that 6x42 is very good. Of course Meopta make what one could see as a compromise between the 6x42 and 8x56 as they make a 7x50 and their optics are very good. I picked up a used Meopta 7x50A some years ago and it's a cracking scope.

The suggestion to consider a larger calibre is a good one and the .308 is an excellent all rounder. As for rifle that has to be a purely a personal choice.
 
Well, I was in a similar position and after research, investigation and good luck ended up with exactly the optics you list. I've been using them for several years now and can see no reason to change. The 8X56 might be a bit too much magnification according to some but I've never found that to be the case and I do stalk in some very close forest. I guess it is what you get used to. The other advantage is that it has almost the same mag as the Minox binos so you get approx the same thing in the scope as in the binos, I don't know if that matters but...

In terms of evening shooting I've found that the Minox HGs can see deer after I've decided shooting time is up (I don't do mornings under any circumstances) so while I can't claim they are the best in the world they are better than I need. I actually think they do punch above their weight and for someone like me are just about the sweet spot on the price/performance graph.

It may be worth considering 2nd hand optics, I got my scope 2nd Hand for very little money, it is a Hungarian, and it has stood me in good stead for a few years. I think the Swaro 8X56 has a wider field of view and so gives a slightly better feeling sight picture but for £250 the S&B is staying and in terms of light gathering there is nothing between them that I can see. I have directly compared the two in fading light. I've no experience of 2nd hand binos but am willing to bet that the birdwatching types are the place to look for top quality binos that have seen very little use.

When it comes to the rifle I don't know what your experience is (it can't be any less than mine) but for what it is worth I tried a few and bought the one I liked the feel of, which happened to be a Blaser R93. The money in the Blasers has gone through the roof of late so I don't think I could recommend one unless you could get a good 2nd hand one. If you are going 2nd hand in a rifle then it might be worth going 308 rather than 243 as the 308 has a longer barrel life, generally speaking.
 
Whoa there.

Rigboot,

Rifle - if it is a working rifle and not your pride and joy, then perhaps you could look at a second hand rifle of good quality that is accurate. Test it first to make sure. Even old BSA's can be highly accurate and wont cost the earth and you wont care if you get it knocked about either, then you can spend more on the glass.

Scope - go for a new or second hand. My personal opinion would be a S&B, Zeiss, Meopta or a Swaro. 6X42 is good but if you are going to be in or near a high canopy or in rides peering onto open ground, then perhaps an 8x56 is whats needed as it will give you all the additional light that you need. One with a 1" or 30mm tube will be fine as it only relates to the amount of reticule movement and not light transmission.

Binos - Get the best you can afford. It is pointless having a great scope for low light if the binos you are using cannot pick up deer in low light. You will think they are not there when they are dancing in front of you. :lol:

You should be able to get a great set up for £1500, all second hand.

If you are looking for a mint zeiss in 6x42, PM me ;)
 
Rifle - if it is a working rifle and not your pride and joy, then perhaps you could look at a second hand rifle of good quality that is accurate. Test it first to make sure. Even old BSA's can be highly accurate and wont cost the earth and you wont care if you get it knocked about either, then you can spend more on the glass.

That bit from jingzy I will have to take exception too :mad: in my honest opinion just because a rifle is used, I won't say S/H as it may have passed through many hands ;) , doesn't mean it cannot be your pride and joy ;) as an example I first present a BSA Regent for your perusal:-

PICT0093.jpg


PICT0081.jpg


PICT0088.jpg


PICT0089.jpg

It's chambered for the 222 Remington cartridge and like the Sako 50 Gr and 55Gr Gamehead ammunition :) the rifles is of 1954 Vintage.

Another that most would like even though it is blued steel and walnut and not stainless and synthetic :rolleyes: is this one:-

5677742.jpg


15751644.jpg


15751589.jpg

and I don't know how someone could not be proud of it. It's a product of both machine and handcrafting, the stock was made by a women who also did the engraving od the makers name, she being the female part of the partnership who made it. I found it on a dealers table at one of the Bisley arms fairs and some haggling resulted with the obvious result :D it too was at least S/H.
 
Brithunter, I think you are reading too deeply into Jingzy,s post , I,m sure you have some nice rifles that has passed through many hands as you put it ! I understand exactly what he means as do you i,m sure , a decent servicible rifle thats not a lot of money .John was replying to a post where someone wanted a bit of feedback from someone who knows what he,s talking about ,and having had the pleasure of meeting John ,this chap knows his onions so don,t be going toe to toe with him regarding rifles ,stalking etc cus your gonna get your nose wiped!
Your rifles are an exception and a credit to you ,most people though will buy one as a working tool for cheap money .
 
Brough said:
Brithunter, I think you are reading too deeply into Jingzy,s post , I,m sure you have some nice rifles that has passed through many hands as you put it ! I understand exactly what he means as do you i,m sure , a decent servicible rifle thats not a lot of money .John was replying to a post where someone wanted a bit of feedback from someone who knows what he,s talking about ,and having had the pleasure of meeting John ,this chap knows his onions so don,t be going toe to toe with him regarding rifles ,stalking etc cus your gonna get your nose wiped!
Your rifles are an exception and a credit to you ,most people though will buy one as a working tool for cheap money .

Cheers for the insight however the perception that a used rifle is just that and need not be cared about or even proud about seems to be a fairly commonly encountered thing. Heck I use it to my advantage when looking for the next one to add to the collection ;) I am just trying to point out that just because it's second hand or shall we say "used" it need not be that way at all :) .

Now a lot of people don't know that BSA not only cut rifled their barrels but lapped them too something which is seen as a custom only option nowadays with the associated price tag until the CF2 line up which I believe have hammer forged barrels.

As for learning about stalking, being only a recrational stalker there is always more to learn as any professional will no doubt be aware ;) , I didn't mention the rifle in my previous posts except to say it's a very personal choice but as we now have come to this stage I will say that in my opinion the rifles pictured are far better than any of the new Sako's or Tikkas ;) although I have not shot the Sako 85 I have shot the Finnlite 75 and it was not impressive to say the least. I also don't think the Tikka T3 was a positive move and honestly beileve that the earlier models were better and yes I have shot seveal T3s.

Berretta have not taken either Sako nor Tikka in a postitive direction :rolleyes: of course my not liking them will never effect those that do like them. It sure would be a boring world if we all liked exactly the same thing! plus if we all chased the older rifles the prices would no doubt increase most probably beyond my reach :( .
 
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