Estate Rifles

I think the point is that nobody knows for sure if you would be breaking the law or not because the wording is somewhat vague and open to interpretation.

Exactly. :tiphat:
That's the great thing about UK Law
It can and will be tested and stretched until someone is proven to be convicted and a precedent set.
 
What happened here was
The guy who helps me take clients out on the estate where i work was in a local gunshop with a client buying ammo
a guy in the shop obviously picked up that Jacob was guiding the Spanish guy somewhere local and asked where it was
Jacob told him thinking everything was legal and not knowing the guy was a local feo , he was told it was illegal for him to
permit the client to stalk with Jacobs own rifle on the estate
I gave my feo a call straight away to clarify and got the same response ,
Easy fix , get an estate rifle on to Jacobs cert
Ive been in court as a witness to a firearms dispute before where the guy in the stand was told "this will go nowhere" , be thrown out etc etc
Three days later £2400 fine and all firearms Destroyed
Its best to do as they say :D
 
Sorry I am confused here.
jacob has permission to shoot on the estate?
jacob was taking a client of yours on the estate to shoot with his rifle?

its illegal for him to do that but OK for him to take clients with your "estate" rifle on his certificate?

is that what you mean?
 
The estate have one rifle , at the minute myself and Ian have that rifle on our certs for clients to use
my feo says that rifle has to be put on Jacobs cert if he guides clients on that ground , we will need to
get another estate rifle for the days with 2 clients out with two guides
He has used his own rifle to take clients but apparently that isnt legal
 
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Also confused, are you employed by the estate or do you lease the land, is Jacob working for you or for the estate , the only justification I can see for what they say is that they don't consider him a servant of the occupier, as for estate rifle what is an estate rifle the rifle though maybe owned by the estate must be on the landowners or some employees certificate, there is no such thing as a certificate for an estate rifle, if you see where I am coming from, so what difference does it make if the Landowners rifle is put on his ticket or he uses his own.

I have been an estate stalker for a good many years both in full time employment and as a contractor in some cases I was supplied with an estate rifle, which was used for clients in some cases my own was used , police in full knowledge that my rifle was used as the estate rifle in fact encouraged as it cut down on the number of visitor permit applications.
 
We both work there on a self employed basis
Im confused by it as well the estate rifle was paid for by the estate but is on my cert so i use it with clients who need use of a rifle
Jacob had been using his own rifle they say that isnt legal i,l pop in to the office tomorow to get an explanation
 
Certainly requires an explanation by the FEO/FLD as to why they are insisting on a rifle owned by the Estate to be the only one permitted to be used/legal!

Suggest you download the BASC Fact Sheet 'Borrowing Rifles' from this link and take it along to them: http://basc.org.uk/firearms/guidance-and-fact-sheets/

It might be referred to as the 'Estate Rifle' clause but it doesn't mean that the rifle being borrowed must be the property of the 'Estate'. As you'll see from the fact sheet it's rather more to do with the status of the person who lends the rifle:

The lender must be the “occupier” of private land or “a servant of the occupier”. The occupier and/or their servant must hold a firearm certificate in respect of the firearm being used.

• The rifle must be borrowed and only used on land occupied by the person lending the rifle.

• The rifle must always remain in the presence of the lender (The term “in the presence of” is not defined in law but is generally interpreted as being within sight and earshot.)

• The borrower must comply with the conditions on the lenders’ FAC e.g. the quarry species.

It sounds as if the FLD in question have taken the concept of 'Estate Rifle' literally and it certainly needs challenging.
 
Am sorry but if Jacob has an open FAC, has permission to shoot and guide on that land and the rifle is legal and on his FAC, and they both conform to the age and proximity restrictions to borrowing a rifle .....I cannot see any aspect of firearms law or HO guidance that he is in breach of

beware of FEO's looking to create "law"
would love to hear the explanation of what he is in breach of
 
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We both work there on a self employed basis
Im confused by it as well the estate rifle was paid for by the estate but is on my cert so i use it with clients who need use of a rifle
Jacob had been using his own rifle they say that isnt legal i,l pop in to the office tomorow to get an explanation

The 'lugging -in' FEO is wrong, if indeed that is what he said. End of.

The confusion arises because of the use of the term 'estate rifle' Estates don't have certificates. It matters not a jot who paid for the rifle. Jacob can carry on doing what he was doing. As long as any rifle he is using, or allowing a guest to use in his company is on his certificate.
 
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