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Thread: British Army goes back to the 7.62?

  1. #1

    British Army goes back to the 7.62?

    Looks like the nobs at the MOD have finally accepted the 5.56 is an inadequate man stopper, new AR10 type rifle is to be issued in limited numbers.

    Surely there must be large numbers of perfectly usable SLR's in storage, or were they all flogged to India?

  2. #2
    NATO forces and the British Army are not going back to 7.62 for general issue. What they are doing is getting the best of both worlds by placing a 1/2 MOA 7.62 rifle in the hands of the best shot in the section. They will still have dedicated snipers but they donít generally deploy with the section but tend to be in a more independent roll. The section will now have the ability to reach out a bit further and more accurately but they will still be able to carry the quantity of ammunition they require to deliver suppressive fire where it is needed.

    Lets get one thing straight the SA80 A2 is one of the best assault rifles available and eclipses the M16 in reliability by at least a factor of 2.

    Eddited to add

    The SLR was a 4MOA rifle, it has had it's day.


  3. #3
    IF the SA80 is so good why will SF not touch it with a barge pole?

  4. #4
    First of all I never said the SA80 was good I said the SA80 A2 is good. The Paras and Marines use the A2. SAS and SBS are a relative minority in the British Army. You would need to ask them that question. They started to use the M16 derivatives when the SA80A1 was in service. the A1 was unreliable unless you spent a significant amount of time maintaining it and even then it was still prone to stopages. Perhaps they are sticking with what they know?

  5. #5
    Dave, just stirring the pot a bit.

    I understand the principles here, the yanks seem to have reissued accurate M14's to "designated marksmen" for similar reasons to this.

    The SA80A2 is a pretty decent rifle, I know H&K were contracted to do the upgrades and made a good job of it compared to the earlier versions.

    I still think the 5.56 is a poor anti-personnel round which was dumped on NAto by the yanks.

    The replacement for the 7.62 should have been a round with a case the size of a 250 savage and a 6.5-7mm bullet of around 120grs. The British had an experimental 7mm round developed for the old EM2 which was still-born.

  6. #6
    The problem that the military have identified with 5.56 is that it's not incapacitating the bad guys in the way that 7.62 will due to it's terminal ballistics - especially with FMJ bullets. Would you expect any large-ish deer to drop to shot if hit - even fairly in the engine room - with a .223 FMJ?

  7. #7
    boys,boys it's nothing to do with 5.56 7.62 303 or anything to do with the best rounds for the job,it's all to do with politics,greed,and contracts and oh backhanders of course,therefore we'll should all agree to disagree as there will always be different opinons!!

    my opinon slr could'nt be beaten!!

  8. #8
    used sa80 and slr .slr was far too bulky for fighting in urban areas plus was only semi auto so sa80 was much better in this situation but if i was in a fire fight in an open situation i would much rather have the slr can take a man out at a fair old range with one of those even with open sights

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mrkipling

    my opinon slr could'nt be beaten!!
    +1 Mr Kipling..

    Would still be my choice..

    We had no problem humping the ammo,the GPMG and the Bren

    I had my own Australian Lithgow on my ticket which i was extremely sad to loose The Mounts were welded to the top slide so was easy to remove scope and fit alternative top slide for iron sights

    The Lithgow Small Arms Factory is a military small arms factory located in the town of Lithgow, New South Wales in Australia.

    Opened on June 8, 1912, the factory initially manufactured Short Magazine Lee-Enfield Mk III rifles (and bayonets thereof) for the Australian military during World War I, expanding production during World War II to include Vickers machine guns, Bren Guns, various artillery pieces and field guns, and (from the 1950s) the L1A1 SLR rifle, before branching out into sporting goods (including civilian firearms and golf clubs), tools, sewing machines, and similar products.

    The factory was later acquired by Australian Defence Industries (now Thales Australia) and, as ADI Lithgow, continues to manufacture the F88 Austeyr rifle currently used by the Australian military, as well as small arms ammunition and propellants for both the military and civilian markets.

    There is a museum on site with a large collection of military and civilian firearms manufactured at the factory throughout its history.

    And as for the Bren Never mind the weight.. Just enjoy the confidence


  10. #10
    SD Regular
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    East Midlands M1/M69 Junction 21
    Lets get one thing straight the SA80 A2 is one of the best assault rifles available and eclipses the M16 in reliability by at least a factor of 2.

    Are you smoking something?

    Nobody, but nobody will buy the thing. In fact the only people that use it are the Jamaica Defence Force who were GIVEN it and even there where the Jamaica Police have a choice, unlike the JDF who don't, the M16 or its variant is preferred.

    I trust that you have never shot the HBAR (Heavy Barrel) version of the M16? The SA80 also is unsafe in certain melee situations - a soldier was shot by his own weapon performing a buttstroke in training.

    I've handled both SA80 and the M16 and the whole balance of SA80 is just wrong nor is it helped by the butt getting lighter as the thing is fired!

    Without its "optical sight" it has an even worse sight radius with iron sights than the SMLE and that is not good at all for those units that are issued it with that arrangment.

    It also cannot be fired from the right shoulder around cover which is a defect of all bullpup weapons.

    However whilst I would condemn it for all the above I would not do so because "Special Forces" don't use it as SFs have a habit of always "wanting to be different" IMHO.

    AS to the thing being put right by H & K that is disgraceful that having spent so much money on this junk (to enrich those cronies of Mrs Thatcher who did very well out of the sale of Royal Ordnance) money has to spent again to put it just about half right.

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