Slightly Confused

Gazza

Well-Known Member
My young cocker appears to have either a sensitive digestive system or he is allergic to a content of dry dog food. Although he is very fit and appears healthy his coat is fairly harsh and his ass is like a Mr Whippy machine. I have had full blood screening done and nothing is untoward as regards his digestive system. My vet is of the opinion he is not gluten allergic as his soft stools are not "Spectacular enough" but if you look at the content of most dry foods it would take a lifetime to find out just what ingredient he may not tolerate. Vet has now suggested a easily digested puppy food.


During discussions with the vet we got onto the subject of feeding raw. Now this is where my confusion arises. I know of a person who owns several lurchers. These dogs are in tip top athletic condition. Fed completely raw 6 days a week and not fed on day 7. I know another person with border collies that are agility dogs. Very fit and again fed completely raw. My vets advice is dogs should not be fed raw especially chicken. His thoughts are that over the years of dog development their intestines and bacteria of the stomach can no longer cope with raw meats. He also considers that even a varied raw diet does not contain essential minerals and vitamins.


Any comments from our vet members. I am not looking for "I feed my dog whatever for XXX Years and he works 7 days a week" I am looking for reasons as to why we should/should not feed raw.
 
personally I have no real problem with feeding raw as long as one is careful regarding potential disease (campylobacter in raw poultry meat, tapeworm intermediate stages in other meats etc) and some variety is maintained as animals will not be eating just steaks in the wild (they will eat liver, bone, intestines including the contents etc) A raw food diet is easier to control as regards potential allergens as there is no other protein source in beef than beef! just look at the ingredients list on many commercial foods and they will contain many sources of protein, any one of which your dog may be allergic/intolerant to.

Once you have eliminated infectious causes of loose stools e.g. worms, giardia, campy etc (this may well require lab testing etc, and how comprehensive is ultimately up to you) Then the next stage would be a diet trial.

This is not complex but it is quite long winded and requires that the diet of choice be fed totally exclusively for at least a month. And it needs to be total exclusion, not even one schmacho or rodeo twister or boneo or whatever as this can undo everything.

It is then a case of moving through different diets until one is found that seems to suit the dog best.

It is sometimes helpful to feed very very simple diets, i.e. beef and potatoes or fish and rice as it allows you to identify a base protein source that doesnt upset the dog, or indeed one that does.

It is a tedious process and one you have to stick to but it is simple. Many dogs do exceeding well on basic commercial foods others need specialist hydrolysed diets to maintain healthy digestive function and there is a spectrum in between.
 
In similar cases I have had good success with Eukanuba Intestinal puppy food.

I have no particular problem with raw feeding, but there are risks. I've heard of cases both salmonella and cryptosporidium in raw fed young dogs, but then I've seen crypto in commercially fed dog food.

I would worry about calcium and phosphorus levels in young rapidly growing dogs. They will need some additional supplementation with vitamins and minerals.

The people who seem to do the best (if they want to feed raw) mix it up with some conventional feed too. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Also you can make a home cooked diet for the dog that you know what is in there, and the risks from uncooked meat is removed.

I feed my own dogs conventional (decent quality) dog food.
 
Beef & Potatoes? Potatoes I would not feed to a dog along with onions, chocolate and grapes.

I would somewhat agree with you as potatoes would seem at odds with feeding a meat eating animal such as a dog but I know of several working farm collies that live on whatever is left from the kitchen table including potatoes. Most commercial dog foods are bulked with wheat. Look at a bag of commercial dog food - beetroot, nettles, spinach, dandelion, kale, seaweed, rosemary (Chudleys working crunch), I don't doubt for one second that dog food manufactures don't spend long hours developing their brand but if you have a dog that is a bit sensitive to a certain ingredient where do you even start.
 
Potatoes are fine. Cooked obviously and presented in such a way that any choking hazard is removed, ie crushed or similar. As for being concerned as to feeding them a meat eating animal have you not seen the cerial content of many commercial foods? Also we are not talking life long, just for a period while you identify potential allergens.

if you suspect dietary allergens then you need to strip the diet back as much as you can and gradually add things back in until you find something the dog is intolerant to, as I said a long process but there is not really any other way to sort it long term. My dog is allergic to pedigree schmachos, if she gets even 1 she will be scratching within 10 minutes
 
We have cockers and they all have the squitters after exercise. The first crxp is usually normal. Raw chicken occasionally does them no harm at all as long as its the type you would eat yourself. The raw chicken bones are not a problem.
We feew chudleys original always. There is no need to starve the dogs one day as they have also moved on from hunting themselves with no guarantee of a catch.
Raw beef bones will harden the stools. Much as I dislike it have you tried tripe.
 
How young? If he's a hyperactive typical cocker, you might just be dealing with a dog that burns off all his calories. It's common and if a dog is in full health, there's no weight loss, there's no blood or mucus in the faeces, then I tend not to be concerned by the shape or consistency of the poo.
 
I have recently changed over to raw as a prefer it because you know what you are feeding your dogs.

No offence to any vets but from what I have read they only get a few days training on food when studying. what I am sure is a very long and hard course to do.

I think that we are force fed rubbish from advertising and scaremongers to get our money and it's easier to feed and quicker so a lot of people just got with the flow.
i introduced raw slowly by giving small tips for positive work. Then gave it in a small meal then brought it. In more until the eat only raw I mix it with carrot,apple tripe, venison,rabbit ,chicken and green leaf veg spinach,broccoli and others. Plus flax seed oil and fish of the oily kind sardines EG.
I looked at this for a long time and a good book to read is "give your dog a bone" by dr Ian billinghurst who decided to study this way of eating.

Each to their own. feed what best for your dog.
 
No offence to any vets but from what I have read they only get a few days training on food when studying. what I am sure is a very long and hard course to do.

Whilst strictly true (we had a module in first year on the principals of nutrition in all species and then I think it was 2 or 3 days later on in the course about feeding dogs and cats) there are many things I am very good at that I spent less time learning about at college. It's a damn sight more formal training that the great majority of 'raw' feeders have ever had, built upon sound scientific foundations (both in A levels and the rest of the undergraduate vet course). The clinical course was sponsored by Hills, but a lot of the conferences and meetings we go to are sponsored by industry and we are bright enough to sort the facts from the commercial spin. To suggest that the veterinary profession has been indoctrinated by the pet food companies is almost as daft as some of the conditions the raw advocates claim commercial food cause.

The reason why most people feed commercial feeds is because there is consumer demand for commercial feed! It's economical, cheap and convenient. There is massive variation in quality. Dogs now are living so much longer than they ever used to and in part that is down to the much better commercial diets that in the 'olden days' when the dog was fed home-made feed and table scraps. Comparing dogs to wolves is stupid as they are far removed these days after hundreds of years of selective breeding and they have different dentition and different digestive systems.

As I said above, you can feed raw food and the dog can do well from it, but there are ever present risks that are not there with quality commercial food. The biggest bug bear with the raw advocates is the way they see it almost as a religion and throw all the silly arguments at commercial food.

Some of the healthiest dogs we see are working dogs living off sacks of cheap working dog food and some tripe.
 
i have been feeding raw to my dog since it was a puppy NEVER had any problems with it, its coat is soft theeth are white and lives little dark very frim parcells around the graden ,>my friend set up a dog food companny and started with one van and his brother ,he now has four people working for him and 3 vans on the road ,he supplie's to a lot a breeders that wont feed dry crap to there dogs ,he sell mince chicken carcase ,tripe mince rabbit fur and head all get minced minced plux ,the list is endless ,my dog loves the rabbit ,lets face it dogs are not born to eat soya and veg rice .they are meat eaters and thats what they do well on ,when was the last time someone rang you up to shoot a fox becouce it has been eating all the carrots ??.thats why our dog has little dropping she digest's everything ,not like the dry stuff witch comes out a big stinking wet thing the size off a baby's arm. there is erveything your dog needs in a mixed raw diet
 
In similar cases I have had good success with Eukanuba Intestinal puppy food.

I have no particular problem with raw feeding, but there are risks. I've heard of cases both salmonella and cryptosporidium in raw fed young dogs, but then I've seen crypto in commercially fed dog food.

I would worry about calcium and phosphorus levels in young rapidly growing dogs. They will need some additional supplementation with vitamins and minerals.

The people who seem to do the best (if they want to feed raw) mix it up with some conventional feed too. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Also you can make a home cooked diet for the dog that you know what is in there, and the risks from uncooked meat is removed.

I feed my own dogs conventional (decent quality) dog food.

:eek: and free advice , from a vet , can,t be bad :) :tiphat:
 
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A wee update to this thread. Almost two months of feeding raw chicken (minced carcasses) and raw tripe - dog is in tip top condition. Although not perfect yet his coat is shining, fit and ready for the season and solid dumps. A far happier dog all round.
 
As I said above, you can feed raw food and the dog can do well from it, but there are ever present risks that are not there with quality commercial food. The biggest bug bear with the raw advocates is the way they see it almost as a religion and throw all the silly arguments at commercial food.
.

Understanding just how poor the quality control is for human foods I am not convinced the quality control for dog food will be worthy of any praise.

There is plenty of info about raw and most is good. As Apache has eluded there are downfalls, though in my opinion they are easily overcome. You will have to experiment a bit to achieve the correct ratio of raw meats for your dog but it isn't hard. There are plenty of forums out there with info.

Its worth a try, it works and you will be amazed at the difference it can make.Weather you continue will be down to if the method suits your lifestyle. However as a deer stalker you do have access to some of the very finest ingreadeients there is! Just some simple hygiene and its all good.

I don't buy the whole dogs being evolved for kibble. Evolution doesn't work that fast! Kibble has only been around for 30 years?? Dogs have lived with man for how many thousands??? eating nothing but table scraps, raw, and bones!

If you search you will find there is quite a following...that many people are not wrong about its benefits.
 
Actually dogs do eat vegetables (and fruit) quite well!
I have had many the pick there own from the garden on when they feel like it!
I have even had some stop and eat blackberries whilst out walking.
They are naturally scavengers and so eat anything!


i have been feeding raw to my dog since it was a puppy NEVER had any problems with it, its coat is soft theeth are white and lives little dark very frim parcells around the graden ,>my friend set up a dog food companny and started with one van and his brother ,he now has four people working for him and 3 vans on the road ,he supplie's to a lot a breeders that wont feed dry crap to there dogs ,he sell mince chicken carcase ,tripe mince rabbit fur and head all get minced minced plux ,the list is endless ,my dog loves the rabbit ,lets face it dogs are not born to eat soya and veg rice .they are meat eaters and thats what they do well on ,when was the last time someone rang you up to shoot a fox becouce it has been eating all the carrots ??.thats why our dog has little dropping she digest's everything ,not like the dry stuff witch comes out a big stinking wet thing the size off a baby's arm. there is erveything your dog needs in a mixed raw diet
 
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