Berger vld bullets

Addie85

Member
Hi

can anyone advise, if you have a COAL you already use, and are getting good accuracy with a standard spritzer bullet do you find you have to adjust this when using berger vlds?? I see berger recommends seating closer

just curious before I make a start

thanks
 
Reading past the Berger woffle, it is clear that they don't have a worthwhile recommendation other than for reloaders to do their own trials on their own rifles - there is absolutely nothing new in that and IMHO is the way to go. (The same as for "best " powder loads, "best" primers, "best" neck tension etc etc).

Ian
 
The cartridge and bullet weight make a very large difference, if you want a numerical answer in thousandths of an inch.

You cannot use COAL with Berger VLD bullets for several reasons.
They are not consistent length, batch to batch.

You cannot use a seating die setting which works for other bullets, like Sierra GK or MK, because they are secant ogive and the VLD is not.

The Hornady Comparator will give some indication off the curvature, but it is made for secant ogive bullets, which VLDs are not.
Sinclair makes a steel comparator for the VLD, which closely simulates the throat and rifling.

Redding makes a special seating die for the VLD. So does Sinclair and Wilson.

I don't shoot Berger bullets, because I have all the accuracy and performance I need out of the other bullets I have. That said, and all I stated above, the place I would start with them is with a seating die that worked for a very accurate load in a very accurate rifle, using the same powder load and primer, seat them with that same die, and see what COAL that gave, and if it will fit into the magazine. Then I would shoot them and see if they were as accurate as the other bullet. I would push one into the rifling in an empty case, and compare that COAL with the loaded one, to tell me whether to adjust the fired load out further or seat it back, for my next batch.
 
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The cartridge and bullet weight make a very large difference, if you want a numerical answer in thousandths of an inch.

You can have two identical barrels from the same manufacturer and chambered with the same reamer and there is no guarantee that they will shoot the same bullet at their best with the same charge and seating depth...
 
You can have two identical barrels from the same manufacturer and chambered with the same reamer and there is no guarantee that they will shoot the same bullet at their best with the same charge and seating depth...

Absolutely. And you can't begin to give a COAL without specifying a cartridge and bullet. And the throat length and diameter vary, rifle to rifle.
Because of the profile of the VLD, if you seat a heavier bullet to normal maximum COAL of 2.80 inches for a .308 Winchester, you will still be far off the lands in most rifles, maybe 0.050".
 
Thanks for all the replies guys!! Sounds like more to it than meets the eye with the Bergers was thinking of the 87g vld in 243
 
There are a lot of .308s and .30-06s out there shooting VLDs with a 50/1000 jump, with splendid accuracy. Berger seems to recommend a 10/1000 jump or putting some bullets into the lands, but that is not realistic for magazines and feeding. But, as I have said before, I think bullet weight and powder, and seating the bullet deep enough to align it properly, are far more important than COAL or jump to the lands.
 
seating the bullet deep enough to align it properly, are far more important than COAL or jump to the lands.

I agree
none of my rifles respond well to land crunching OAL
I am about to try a little experiment with 208gr AMax in the 300WM as ALL the data indicates 5-10 thou or less
my jump is measured in MM!
 
I have loaded some 208 Amax in my .30-06 and want to try more. A near max load in the .30-06 is just faster than the starting load in a .300 WM.
Shape of the bullet made my COAL +0.008 longer than a Sierra 190, so that would mean about 3.420" for the .300 WM with a good deep seat. Don't know what powder you have, but a friend who is a .300 WM shooter since the 1960s ( he gave me the bullets to try), says to not load it up hot and try regular primers, staying around 2,800 fps. I can ask him his best loads, and measure some loaded ammo, out of curiosity ( he works in a gun store).
 
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interesting
a lot of the stuff I am reading is H1000 maxed out with COL as long as they can

I am running 78gr H1000 COL not conclusive as yet, just done charge testing
or 69.5gr N160 and an actual COL of 91mm/3.58" (tip to head)
the ogive of .308" is exactly 20mm/0.787" from bullet tip

pushing these into the lands on my rifle (Tikka factory sporter barrel) would leave me a ridiculously long cartridge with very little neck hold
(as it is this is a single feed round)

sorry for the hijack
 
78.0 gr H-1000 is compressed and MAX. I load H-1000 and 7828 for my brother's 7mm Rem Mag. Seat your bullet so the shank in down in the neck ( 3.38 to 3.42 inches COAL. Drop the charge to 74.0 gr. This will still raise the pressure a back up. Let the bullet run 0.030 or so. Try Winchester LR primers ( on the hot side) as well as your magnum primers. That is what my limited experience with the 7mm RM tells me to start with, until I can ask my friend with the .300 WMs. He loads his for hunting, magazine length, elk in Montana or Idaho every year.
 
78.0 gr H-1000 is compressed and MAX. I load H-1000 and 7828 for my brother's 7mm Rem Mag. Seat your bullet so the shank in down in the neck ( 3.38 to 3.42 inches COAL. Drop the charge to 74.0 gr. This will still raise the pressure a back up.

It is book MAX but it is far from compressed, shake test shows a good amount of space
I ran loads from 73 to 79 and it showed two nodes at 75.6gr (1.1") and 78gr (15/16")

I just made up the OAL variants last night, if these show promise I will leave alone, if not I am going shorter than 90mm (tip to head)
I can't run a 30 thou jump to the ogive as that leaves the cartridge so long I have to literally feed the tip into the chamber and drop the rest behind just to get it in

to be honest I will probably play with the H1000 until it runs out then stick with the N160. its a faster powder so uses less per case and gives good velocities out of my shorter barrel
 
I am not suggesting 0.030 inches freebore. I was saying it might be at least that, with a 3.42 inch COAL,.. but forget about that and seat the bullet to 3.42 to get it down into the neck to line it up.

At 75.6 to 78.0 gr of H-1000, you have to be close to 2,800 fps.
 
Hi

can anyone advise, if you have a COAL you already use, and are getting good accuracy with a standard spritzer bullet do you find you have to adjust this when using berger vlds?? I see berger recommends seating closer

just curious before I make a start

thanks

Hi there Addie . May I Share with you some of our findings with VLD bulets . We have tested a lot of rifles in all the major calibers and bore sizes . There was one glaring truth that was evident throughout . and that was the rifle will shoot where it wants to as regards bullet jump. We seat bullets on the lands initially and do our powder work up there. when we have found the charge that gives us the best accuracy I then seat the bullets into the case by 0.030 thou increments and re test again until the best accuracy is achieved . We re tweak the powder charge in minor increments but do not be surprised at all if you rifle shoots incredibly well with the bullets jumping 0.090 thou or MORE ! The most accurate long range rifle we ever built shot 210 grain 30 cal bergers into the 0.1s with the bullets jumping way way off the lands. Yours respectfully Mike Norris Brock and Norris Custom Rifles
 
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