Poll - What would you do in my shoes?!

Roe bucks - What would you do?


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stratts

Well-Known Member
Ok. I have a dilemna about Roe bucks and am not sure what to do for the best!

I'll bullet point the facts then see what you would do in my shoes. It may even bring back memories for the more experienced stalkers on here as you may have been in the same position, and if so please tell!!


  • I have never shot a Roe buck before
  • I have been asked to manage the deer for the farmer who likes to see them about, so doesn't want them hammered. Munties get shot on sight though
  • We don't have loads of Roe on the ground (1000 acres mainly arable) so shooting a dominant buck wouldn't matter so much if others moved in as there is not much damage (at the moment!)
  • As I haven't seen many Roe in person I don't have the experience or knowledge to know how old they may be when I encounter them, apart from being obviously youngsters
  • As far as I'm aware the neighbouring farm has no-one shooting the deer so any good buck 'may' get left alone (I've set the wheels in motion and enquired about the stalking ;))
  • I don't yet have a set cull plan as I'm still guaging numbers and learning the trade so to speak

So to the options, would you?


  • Show restraint (as I have been doing) and study the Roe further before shooting one unless I happen upon a definitive cull buck, malform, etc
  • Leave the nice buck I've seen hoping/assuming it may get bigger and better and not get shot elsewhere
  • Shoot the next buck I see given the chance regardless of size, shape, etc, as you never know what's going to happen in the future
  • Purposely go out and try and get the nice buck while the rut is on, as it would make a cracking 1st Roe buck in case it dissappears

Please share your thoughts and feel free to add an option or question to help out,

Cheers

Stratts
 
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That's a big question, first thing I would ask is what are you trying to achieve, sustaining numbers but no letting then increase, reducing numbers slightly or getting the population dynamic and percentages right, ie buck to doe ratio, or is it because there is damage that needs to be reduced? Whichever it is shooting a good buck is unlikely to have any effect on any of the above and could make things worse. Firstly I would say you need to study what you think you have on the ground as well as the damage that is occurring.
 
Shoot a young buck and ask the owner if he would like it in `oven-ready` state or sell it and give him the money and receipt.
Owners like to be in control and it is a good way to retain your sport.

HWH.
 
I think (1) and (2) are ostensibly the same. By culling out the weak and poorer heads, you should be improving the gene pool anyway. If all heads are poor on the bucks, you'll be wanting to try and pull a better alpha male in. The rut is pretty much over, so any mating will have been done for this year. If the owner likes to see some around, there may well be a 'favourite' he sees regularly, whether he has declared it or not, so go carefully.

What you're describing is management - so assess your numbers and shoot with care - and enjoy yourself!
 
That's a big question, first thing I would ask is what are you trying to achieve, sustaining numbers but no letting then increase, reducing numbers slightly or getting the population dynamic and percentages right, ie buck to doe ratio, or is it because there is damage that needs to be reduced? Whichever it is shooting a good buck is unlikely to have any effect on any of the above and could make things worse. Firstly I would say you need to study what you think you have on the ground as well as the damage that is occurring.

This is the strange situation I am faced with where the owner actually wouldn't mind seeing more Roe on the land! There is not much damage at the moment, so if other bucks moved in to replace the one or two good ones I 'could' take now, the ground could quite possibly sustain them.

Shoot a young buck and ask the owner if he would like it in `oven-ready` state or sell it and give him the money and receipt.
Owners like to be in control and it is a good way to retain your sport.

HWH.

I like it but he doesn't actually like venison as I've asked already and anything I shoot gets consumed by us or friends and family. He leaves me to do as I please with the carcasses but being only muntjac shot at the moment they soon get gobbled up!!
 
You could hypothesise all day and not come up with an answer. If you shoot the buck will you know in a year if it was the right thing to do? If you dont shoot the buck in a year will you know if it was the right thing to do? The more I read get taught or experiance for myself the less sure i am about and the more sceptical I am of someone that claims to be able to tell you exactly what to do regarding what to cull and be confident of linking a tangeable result to a specific plan. Impact assessment techniques seem the most plausable measurement. There are just too many variables and on top of that a number of different agendas from different stake holders.

Sounds as though you have a fairly loose remit of knocking a few deer down without flattening everything. Do what you want but dont agonise over it.
 
If you shoot the young bucks only your numbers will increase and you will avoid too much damage, shoot a good buck and you could potentially, cause young bucks to come in that the older buck is keeping out, again numbers should increase, you can only decrease numbers by shooting does, if your land owner wants to see more Roe then leave your does alone and for a start take poor bucks, it seems that you have a great opportunity.
 
Start off by watching and learning while you are doing that you can still remove munty,s. The rut is over everything should settle down a bit. Look at your does how many young they have 1/2 Take out any obvious pour quality youngster. If it is to increase numbers leave female kids and remove male. In April /May watch what is happening in the area and shoot most of the young males leave the big lads until you know who is who. 1000 is plenty to study roe and manage them. If you are thinking of shooting a buck because some one else might then you are wasting your time even thinking about management.
 
Thanks chaps.

Yes I am in a nice position but feel I've earned it after gaining the trust of the landowner by doing the donky work and rabbit shooting, etc, for the last 3 years ;)

Unfortunately Pete, in a quirky twist of fate it seems I will only be able to hypothesise for the next few weeks!! I just got a text from her indoors saying she tripped down the stairs after I left for work and is currently in A&E getting her broken foot set in plaster!! :doh: Anyone know how to use those white metal things that spin round in the utility room, I always thought it was magic!! :D
 
the fact that not many are seen is either a sign that the ground is not attractive to roe, or there are indeed neighbours who shoot!.

good arable land with hedges or woodland should sustain a sizeable roe population.

I have one plot of 850 acres which is a mix between woodland, crops and grazing. it allows me to take 7-10 bucks pa and 12-15 does/kids without impacting on the population size (which I am happy with), so this allows me to pick the right 'mix' to cull rather than shoot on sight.

if there is a small population you're trying to grow, yes, don't shoot mature does as they will be the driver for growth. however, do observe the does on the ground if they have kids, one, two, or none! you might find a few old dominant does that are not able to bear kids anymore, and which get the main attention of the local bucks, hence, there's little population growth as the younger does get pushed off the ground. in that instance, you may wish to shoot the older does to allow new young breeders to flourish,,the same might be said for the bucks.

it's all about understanding the circumstances of your environment, observation is key for the next year and really think about things, learn what the neighbours are doing, or is the neighbouring ground so attractive it holds all the roe? if so, should you discuss with the farmer whether he will let you buy and plant, say 1000 willow shoots in hedgerows, etc. to start attracting deer?..lots of options here, also including salt licks, molasses, etc.

..then again, sometimes you'd be surprised at what is 'actually' on the ground, the roe population might be higher than you think (trail cam time!)...and you might also find that the more you cull the munty's, the more attractive a roe ground you will have (score!)
 
dont worry. you can hoover and wash with a cast on.

+1.............she will be confined to barracks in that state!!!:rofl:

all joking aside,hope she gets well soon.........

and after that,Stratts,if your still desperate to shoot a Roe,come down and swap one of mine for one of your munties...
 
Just spoke to her and she has one of those Rooney boots on and didn't waste any time getting on the sofa!! :rolleyes:

Out of interest do Roe eat apples? I've heard that Muntjac do and I have a trailcam to put out so thought about lobbing a few windfall apples out chopped up in front of it coz we have loads of em near me!

The other thing I thought about that might affect deer activity, or at least why I don't see many Roe, is that there are a few people that walk their dogs around the lakes. They live within the area of the farm and will soon be asked to stop as they don't technically have permission to do so, although it has been tolerated. Most of the time I've seen them on the trailcam has been well after dark!! (The deer that is, not the walkers!!)
 
Like I said to you stratts treat yr self to a poorer headed buck leave yr does if the boss don't mind seeing a few about it is harvest time even for you :lol: My pal shot just one buck on the little bit of roe ground I stalk but it was nice to see him kinda break a smile .ive had reports of roe does kids and a buck close to home or stalking I use in the last week so hopefully I'll be in your situation in a few yrs time and be overrun with em lol
Regards N
 
Just spoke to her and she has one of those Rooney boots on and didn't waste any time getting on the sofa!! :rolleyes:

Out of interest do Roe eat apples? I've heard that Muntjac do and I have a trailcam to put out so thought about lobbing a few windfall apples out chopped up in front of it coz we have loads of em near me!

The other thing I thought about that might affect deer activity, or at least why I don't see many Roe, is that there are a few people that walk their dogs around the lakes. They live within the area of the farm and will soon be asked to stop as they don't technically have permission to do so, although it has been tolerated. Most of the time I've seen them on the trailcam has been well after dark!! (The deer that is, not the walkers!!)

not sure about apples, I have thousands so would be keen to hear of others thoughts on that too
 
Like I said to you stratts treat yr self to a poorer headed buck leave yr does if the boss don't mind seeing a few about it is harvest time even for you :lol: My pal shot just one buck on the little bit of roe ground I stalk but it was nice to see him kinda break a smile .ive had reports of roe does kids and a buck close to home or stalking I use in the last week so hopefully I'll be in your situation in a few yrs time and be overrun with em lol
Regards N

That's the other thing the only ones I've seen have been crackers, whether it be on cam or in person, so I'm not sure if there are many poorer ones there!! The coat on the one I saw last night was a beautiful rich chestnut colour and it was a pleasure to get so close, albeit briefly!! Ironically I just got the call I've been waiting for to say they are starting harvesting later today and I'm unlikely to be able to get out now! :(

not sure about apples, I have thousands so would be keen to hear of others thoughts on that too

I'll chuck a load out and let you know mate. I figured if they were well chopped up they might be quite tempting?!
 
That's the other thing the only ones I've seen have been crackers, whether it be on cam or in person, so I'm not sure if there are many poorer ones there!! The coat on the one I saw last night was a beautiful rich chestnut colour and it was a pleasure to get so close, albeit briefly!! Ironically I just got the call I've been waiting for to say they are starting harvesting later today and I'm unlikely to be able to get out now! :(



I'll chuck a load out and let you know mate. I figured if they were well chopped up they might be quite tempting?!

I have a bit of ground where all the bucks are large 6 pointers, almost all lingering on bronze upwards as per what I've observed. I believe there is a smaller more concentrated population because it is GREAT land for roe, and the younger bucks get chased off to the neighbours.

in that case, you are right to shoot the big bucks that are going back/getting old, or those injured.

you will probably also find that the bucks that take up the incumbents territory will grow to roughly equal size due to the nutrition available.

if that's the case, you're onto a winner
 
I have a bit of ground where all the bucks are large 6 pointers, almost all lingering on bronze upwards as per what I've observed. I believe there is a smaller more concentrated population because it is GREAT land for roe, and the younger bucks get chased off to the neighbours.

in that case, you are right to shoot the big bucks that are going back/getting old, or those injured.

you will probably also find that the bucks that take up the incumbents territory will grow to roughly equal size due to the nutrition available.

if that's the case, you're onto a winner

Sounds like my land may be similar and the few bucks I see are commanding the good ground, eating well and are in fine condition generally, not just with good heads. It's interesting though that we've only seen the odd doe about, but then again a combination of the vast amounts of wheat and the walkers may mean I just haven't been there at the right times lately!?
 
I take it the roe are somewhere handy to your home. They have been moving through the fens for many years but are not densely populating the flat lands generally because of lack of cover. If it is land in the fen then shoot as you see fit, if it is say similar to the" Brickyards" South of Hampton or where the cover is good it won't be long until they explode into a big population. In the 60's six roe were introduced to an estate on the Cotswolds,ten years later another four were introduced to an estate in Warwickshire 25 miles away. It only took another ten years for the two populations to join up.They now are common in Warwk's,, Worcestershire, Glos, Oxfordshire even suburbs of B'ham hold the odd animal. They are spreading in quite good numbers Westwards from Stamford into Northants having come in from the fens to better feeding areas.
 
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