Small game classed as deer!

Devon County Shooter

Well-Known Member
Evening gents.

Any Welsh lads confirm something for me?

Got a client coming down down for some stalking from Wales who was told he can shoot deer with the term "small ground game" on his open ticket. I'm sure if he was stopped in Devon by the police with deer in the back and no "deer" word actually on his ticket that he may be in a little bother! If I'm wrong that every day is a school day and I've learnt something new, just want to cover my ass.

I'm also just wondering about the advice as he was also told it was a grey area! I told him....NO, its black or white!

Thoughts?

Regards Carl.
 
Interesting. He doesn't have AOLQ, I suppose?

In any case, a FAC is not required to be in possession of a dead deer:)

He might shoot under 'estate rifle' rule if necessary?
 
On that basis my 'thoughts' are - don't stalk in too close, keep the scope on lowest possible magnification and whatever he shoots at should look sufficiently 'small' to meet the conditions on his ticket. Meanwhile back in the real world (IIRC), deer aren't classified as 'game' and I think he should have 'deer' or 'any other lawful quarry' on his ticket if he's going to legally shoot deer.
 
A friend has "fox and AOLQ" on his .243 and has been told by his FEO he is fine to shoot deer. He originally applied for fox as the good reason so was granted it for that and subsequently started shooting deer once he got more land. I was similar but since adding a .308 (deer were the reason for it) all are now conditioned for deer and AOLQ
 
Evening gents.

Any Welsh lads confirm something for me?

Got a client coming down down for some stalking from Wales who was told he can shoot deer with the term "small ground game" on his open ticket. I'm sure if he was stopped in Devon by the police with deer in the back and no "deer" word actually on his ticket that he may be in a little bother! If I'm wrong that every day is a school day and I've learnt something new, just want to cover my ass.

I'm also just wondering about the advice as he was also told it was a grey area! I told him....NO, its black or white!

Thoughts?

Regards Carl.

Never seen that term on an FAC. You use the term client, so I'm guessing he's paying. Ask to see a pic of the conditions of his license and insurance for your records and satisfaction. If you're unhappy (calibre, condition, insurance cover), you should insist he uses your rifle (and even then only if he has appropriate insurance). Turn him away if he wont provide. I'd make him do the DMQ shooting test first up too.

Unless he's coming deeper and down - and then it's just the status quo....
 
So "any other lawful quarry" caters for deer on a persons ticket? Is this the standard practice for forces across the country?


If you check the ACPO stuff on the sticky on this site you will find when the recommendation was made about AOLQ. Down to each force as to how/when/if they role it out.

Bottom line for a lot of forces is "if it ain't broke". Those that see an increase in "requests" have probably gone down the AOLQ route as it means less admin.

AOLQ means that you gave authority/permission for the animal on the ground and a suitable calibre.

Stan
 
If it has a hole in it and you have a rifle on board, what then?

I suppose the police might think that you'd shot it contrary to the conditions on your FAC; and if they though they could prove as much they might make something of it.

If our hypothetical guest turned out not to have deer on his FAC, I imagine he would use the 'estate rifle' facility offered by his stalker. So his having his own rifle with him would be misleading and highly circumstantial 'evidence' of an offence that didn't happen. A quick call to the host-stalker would be enough to clear the matter up!
 
I suppose the police might think that you'd shot it contrary to the conditions on your FAC; and if they though they could prove as much they might make something of it.

If our hypothetical guest turned out not to have deer on his FAC, I imagine he would use the 'estate rifle' facility offered by his stalker. So his having his own rifle with him would be misleading and highly circumstantial 'evidence' of an offence that didn't happen. A quick call to the host-stalker would be enough to clear the matter up!

Even better get it sorted out in advance of the trip & if it looks like an estate rifle will be used why bother taking his own?
Why (if it came down to it) give the police any reason to suspect an offence may have been committed. The outcome would be as predictable as playing Russian roulette
Wingy
 
Why (if it came down to it) give the police any reason to suspect an offence may have been committed. The outcome would be as predictable as playing Russian roulette
Wingy

Why go out in your car? The police might think you'd been speeding/drinking/driving without due care and attention.
 
Evening gents.

Any Welsh lads confirm something for me?

Got a client coming down down for some stalking from Wales who was told he can shoot deer with the term "small ground game" on his open ticket. I'm sure if he was stopped in Devon by the police with deer in the back and no "deer" word actually on his ticket that he may be in a little bother! If I'm wrong that every day is a school day and I've learnt something new, just want to cover my ass.

I'm also just wondering about the advice as he was also told it was a grey area! I told him....NO, its black or white!

Thoughts?

Regards Carl.

Is Carl not confusing Deer with Sheep?

Stan
 
Evening gents.

Any Welsh lads confirm something for me?

Got a client coming down down for some stalking from Wales who was told he can shoot deer with the term "small ground game" on his open ticket. I'm sure if he was stopped in Devon by the police with deer in the back and no "deer" word actually on his ticket that he may be in a little bother! If I'm wrong that every day is a school day and I've learnt something new, just want to cover my ass.

I'm also just wondering about the advice as he was also told it was a grey area! I told him....NO, its black or white!

Thoughts?

Regards Carl.


What do you mean by Welsh lads? Wales is a fair sized principality and unlike Scotland still has four police forces and not a national police service.

Can't say that I have ever seen the condition that you mention written on any certificate even an English one. My thoughts would be that the guy concerned does not have permission to shoot deer with his rifles and would have to take advantage of the estate rifle exemption if that is possible.
 
What do you mean by Welsh lads? Wales is a fair sized principality and unlike Scotland still has four police forces and not a national police service.

A bit touchy there aren't we given no Scots SD members replied to the post - and does it matter how many forces you have as they could all still be a pile of mince!

Ed
 
No not touchy Ed, just pointing out that there are currently four police forces covering Wales and that each has quite a different and individual approach to most things especially firearms. Amalgamation of the forces is almost certain eventually, so that at some time in the distant future there may be a consistent approach but I wouldn't hold my breath.


Thinking about it Ed you may well have been right in the first place and I was a bit touchy about it. My kids have, to me anyway, the nasty habit of saying " in England". To which I invariably reply "what do you mean by England, England is a whole country, don't you mean Hereford or Gloucestershire or whatever." I think it's something to do with the divisiveness currently being taught in schools and fostered in Government, which to me as a borderer is something quite alien. I still like to refer to the county names which mean something to me.
 
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Aye we're still waiting to see any real benefit from the one force.
So far all that can be seen is more armed officers carrying out regular duties!
With armed crime supposedly on the decrease go figure!

Ed
 
At least in theory Ed with only a single force you should have only a single common policy, though I would think that this may take some time to filter through to all parts of the force area.

I served in a fire service that was the result of the amalgamation of three county services. It took us at least ten years before some sort of common aim and objective was achieved. Prior to that amalgamation the service that I originally served in had itself been formed by a previous amalgamation of two other brigades 15 years before and there was still some differences in policy between the two when the last amalgamation came about. So it may take a bit of time.
 
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