FAC considerations if planning to shoot in competitions

Cloudhopper

Well-Known Member
Just browsing on another site and came across a thread proposing a new class of target shooting at Bisley - S Class - Sporting rifle. The idea is that hunting rifles are used with a weight limit. No specialist aids, nothing more than the rifle in one hand and a couple of ammo boxes in the other. Shooting at 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards. Now this really appeals.

The question: my FAC is conditioned for shooting deer and "any other lawful quarry". Do I need to join a club (or the NRA) and send the certificate off to have the target shooting condition added? I'm guessing this will be FMJ only.
CH
 
Just browsing on another site and came across a thread proposing a new class of target shooting at Bisley - S Class - Sporting rifle. The idea is that hunting rifles are used with a weight limit. No specialist aids, nothing more than the rifle in one hand and a couple of ammo boxes in the other. Shooting at 300, 400, 500 and 600 yards. Now this really appeals.

The question: my FAC is conditioned for shooting deer and "any other lawful quarry". Do I need to join a club (or the NRA) and send the certificate off to have the target shooting condition added? I'm guessing this will be FMJ only.
CH

In a word - yes
 
Tim is spot on. When I applied for .308 I was specifically told to apply for deer, zeroing AND target. My study for DSC 1 must be going in because whilst you can zero with deer / vermin legal expanding ammo you definately cannot use it within a target environment.

God I feel an expert - no def a novice who is brain dead from cramming for DSC 1 in October. :coat:
 
Surely you have a "land over which the certificate holder has permission to shoot" condition? I was lead to understand that was standard. As a member of a club, you have permission to shoot over the ranges, and therefore surely that would be fulfilled (unless of course you don't have that condition)

The other thing to remember is that it is unlawful to use expanding ammunition for competition. S5 is issued purely for shooting quarry and practicing. Zeroing and load development are ok at the range, but shooting a competition almost certainly wouldn't be. That leads to you needing to fire more bullets, to change from the expanding round zero to the "match" round zero, and back again, which is expensive and can be a real pain.
 
Surely you have a "land over which the certificate holder has permission to shoot" condition? I was lead to understand that was standard. As a member of a club, you have permission to shoot over the ranges, and therefore surely that would be fulfilled (unless of course you don't have that condition)

The other thing to remember is that it is unlawful to use expanding ammunition for competition. S5 is issued purely for shooting quarry and practicing. Zeroing and load development are ok at the range, but shooting a competition almost certainly wouldn't be. That leads to you needing to fire more bullets, to change from the expanding round zero to the "match" round zero, and back again, which is expensive and can be a real pain.


Hi, yes I have an "Open Cert" and can use the rifle and ammo on land over which I have lawful authority to shoot.
 
Then why do you think that you would need any kind of change to your certificate to allow you to shoot on ranges/in competition?
 
if you are thinking of shooting at Bisley then you will either require a safe shooters card, or be there as part of a club and monitored by that club on a one to one basis, I believe the club involved in running the "S class" comp have covered that by making the comp part of a guest day. depending on calibre FMJ's can be considerably cheaper to load than expanding, I also find the zero for me remains almost identical between 150 grn pro-hunters and 155grn smk's, if you are shooting 300-500 you are going to have to rezero anyway, so no extra work really, and the practise will help so go for it :D
 
Then why do you think that you would need any kind of change to your certificate to allow you to shoot on ranges/in competition?


Deer and AOLQ plus zeroing on ranges or land.... Shooting the rifle in a target shooting competition is a different usage. That's how I see it anyway.
CH
 
if you are thinking of shooting at Bisley then you will either require a safe shooters card, or be there as part of a club and monitored by that club on a one to one basis, I believe the club involved in running the "S class" comp have covered that by making the comp part of a guest day. depending on calibre FMJ's can be considerably cheaper to load than expanding, I also find the zero for me remains almost identical between 150 grn pro-hunters and 155grn smk's, if you are shooting 300-500 you are going to have to rezero anyway, so no extra work really, and the practise will help so go for it :D

Yes, it was being done as part of a guest day. I think it sounds like a really good idea.
CH
 
The other thing to remember is that it is unlawful to use expanding ammunition for competition.

Pedantry follows:
1. Many kinds of non-S5 target-bullet expand ferociously. They are very far from being universally FMJs!
2. My FAC allows use of S5 ammuntion 'only in connection with' (not, please note, 'only for') among other things 'the lawful shooting of deer' and 'the shooting of vermin'.
If we further bear in mind that 'target practice' means in plain English 'the practice of shooting at targets', it is hard to see how using S5 in a competition would be unlawful if that competition was justifably useful practice for vermin or deer-shooting.
My personal view is that first, I wouldn't wish to be the test-accused for this and second, if the idea were correct then claiming this justification while shooting with a sporter-weight rifle much beyond 300yds would almost certainly be pushing the 'in connection with' thing a bit far!
 
I imagine you'd be covered. However, rather than take the word of someone on a forum, however well informed, why don't you give your police firearms dept. a call and hopefully there you'll get the definitive answer to set your mind at rest?
 
I'd suggest that an enquiry to the club or range officers running the day as to what they require would be a far better bet than a police FLD desk clerk who may have no idea.
 
If you are not already a member of an HO approved rifle club then you will probably not have "target shooting" on your FAC.

Without it, frankly you are outwith your FAC terms. This isn't just a bit of fun pushing the boundaries of "zeroing".

The question of bullet types is interesting. I won't discuss the practical reality. But also be aware of range limits, i.e. don't expect to shoot a 22-250, .204 Ruger or similarly high velocity calibre.

To shoot unsupervised at Bisley, or pretty much any other club, you will need an NRA competency certificate. You will get this once you have passed a probationary period at a club, probably an in-club safety course, and then a (very straightforward) formal examination for the NRA card.

If you are a club member then you will be covered by their basic insurance. If you are not, then perhaps you may have some alternative cover. The Target Shooting FAC condition requires you to have adequate insurance cover, which you would be foolish to disregard.

If you have not been through this process then you probably won't have a grasp of the formalities of shooting on a range, and will in any case have to be supervised 1 on 1 by someone who is competent. If the organisers have all this in place, then crack on.

I don't know how "guest days" work, my club doesn't do them, they tried but found them to be unsatisfactory.
 
You've covered just about everything Sharpie. Guests will be covered by the host club's insurance.

Not sure by what you mean about your club finding guest days unsatisfactory though, as it isn't a great deal of trouble usually for clubs to accomodate visting shooters or even non FAC holding guests on notified guest days. As you say one to one supervision will be necessary if the shooter doesn't hold a NRA range competency certificate and you are shooting on MOD ranges (Bisley counts as one).
 
I think I'll join the NRA, get my FAC conditioned for target shooting and then sort out the NRA Competency Certificate training. Seems like the way forward.

Thanks to you all.
CH
 
I think I'll join the NRA, get my FAC conditioned for target shooting and then sort out the NRA Competency Certificate training. Seems like the way forward.

Thanks to you all.
CH

Do also consider joining a local club, if there is one convenient for you. It brings a lot of benefits, and will be affiliated with the NRA.

The Competency Certificate / Shooter Certification Card has to be renewed annually, which requires proof that you have shot regularly. My club checks the shooting records and if you haven't been to a range day at least three times in the past year then the Chairman won't renew it, and you will have to start again.

It also separately itemises the different classes of firearm for which you are deemed competent.

Specifically:

Telescope sighted rifle
Iron sighted rifle
Long range pistol
Short range pistol
HME firearms/ammunition
Gallery rifle/carbine
Muzzle loaded rifle
Muzzle loaded pistol
Target shotgun

You need to decide which categories you want, and have the appropriate training. I think the NRA charges for this, and the issuing of the card. My club doesn't, it is absorbed in the membership fee etc.

Typically you should look to qualifying for telescopic sighted, iron sighted and gallery rifles as a minimum.

If you are granted the "Target Shooting" condition your FEO will require evidence (e.g. club shooting records) that you have attended a club and used all of your conditioned firearms each year.

They can and do suspend or cancel FACs for breaches. This is an annual check, not just at renewal time.

When you renew an FAC which includes Target Shooting one of your two referees is required to be a club official, who is prepared to vouch for you, another reason why you must "show your face" from time to time.

Anyway club shooting can be sociable, great fun, you get to muck about with each others rifles in a safe legal environment and you can pretty much apply for whatever you want, within reason, as long as your cabinet is big enough.
 
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Sharpie the validity of range competency certificates has now been extended and are no longer only valid for one year. I can't remember at the moment if they are now issued for three or five years.
I would have to agree with you about looking to join a local club rather than the NRA unless you live close enough to Bisley to benefit from individual membership.
 
Sharpie the validity of range competency certificates has now been extended and are no longer only valid for one year. I can't remember at the moment if they are now issued for three or five years.
I would have to agree with you about looking to join a local club rather than the NRA unless you live close enough to Bisley to benefit from individual membership.

Five years.

I'm an NRA individual member, but it's not my primary club.
 
Thanks Pete, I couldn't remember where my certificate was when I replied. You probably live close enough to Bisley to make NRA membership worthwhile but for me I can't see any advantage to individual membership.
 
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