Using thermal on witnessed stalks

SussexFallow

Well-Known Member
I recently was asked the question " can I use my thermal to spot deer on a witnessed stalk"
using thermal myself for foxing I know how easy it would be to see deer that may otherwise be missed using binoculars. My personal opinion is that it's cheating. Am I alone or is it progression ??
Atb Steve
 
I would think not,in my opinion the whole thermal bit, fox or deer,is too much,I mean who wants to eradicate the very animal that gives us our sport.
The same thinking,also gets me leaning towards the use of trail cams,wheres the thrill and mystery gone,
I have just got a tiny bit of ground bordered by a large forest,seen one munty[not shot] in 10 outings,but imagine next time if the best buck in the forest strolls out on to my ground.
Thats what I like about this stalking game.
Tod.
 
If the answer is no, doesn't the logical progression of that go back to a loincloth and a pointed stick only? And maybe not even those! :)

Alan
 
If you need a deer that outing (cull plan/freezer is empty) then why not use whatever is legal?

If you're stalking for pure pleasue then why not use open sights and a muzzle loader etc:D
 
I recently was asked the question " can I use my thermal to spot deer on a witnessed stalk"
using thermal myself for foxing I know how easy it would be to see deer that may otherwise be missed using binoculars. My personal opinion is that it's cheating. Am I alone or is it progression ??
Atb Steve
My opinion is there are hunter's and there are shooters , I think if a pleasure stalker has to gain that much advantage they are A ; desperate or B ; not good enough to be of a level 2 standard , just my opinion !
 
With regards to Vermin I see no issue with the use of thermal. However

regarding deer.. Is it legal ?

Rgds Buck.
 
fine by me , you've still got to stalk and shoot the beast , spotting them is the easy bit in my opinion !
 
There is nothing in the witness guides to say that using a visual aid to spot potential quarry is not allowed, binoculars are encouraged and many PC questions can relate to such visual aids being used and maintained in good working order. So as a Witness myself if a candidate has thermal and uses it on a stalk with me I have no problem with it. Then again if a candidate wishes to use a full bore muzzle loader with open sites to shoot a cull animal I am fine with that as long as it fulfills the requirements of the deer act and the candidate is safe. Problem will be proving that your ML load is upto scratch on the day. So if any one wants a witnessed stalk with a ML bring a calculator and chronograph too !

Is is it legal ? As long as it's a hand held unit for spotting then I'm not aware of anything in the deer act that states thermal is ileagle !

Skipp
 
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If it's not illegal,or against the rules, then it is up to the user and his own standard of ethics, IMO.




Steve
 
There is nothing in the witness guides to say that using a visual aid to spot potential quarry is not allowed, binoculars are encouraged and many PC questions can relate to such visual aids being used and maintained in good working order. So as a Witness myself if a candidate has thermal and uses it on a stalk with me I have no problem with it. Then again if a candidate wishes to use a full bore muzzle loader with open sites to shoot a cull animal I am fine with that as long as it fulfills the requirements of the deer act and the candidate is safe. Problem will be proving that your ML load is upto scratch on the day. So if any one wants a witnessed stalk with a ML bring a calculator and chronograph too !

Is is it legal ? As long as it's a hand held unit for spotting then I'm not aware of anything in the deer act that states thermal is ileagle !

Skipp


Why have to prove just a ML? What if someone arrives with a 243? Would you check it's also doing over the required ME and bullet weight?
 
If a thermal camera is cheating, is a dog that sniffs the air and lets its handler know there's a deer up ahead cheating also?
 
Why have to prove the requirements of a muzzle loader, firstly safety and secondly many ml are not capable of producing the min muzzle velocity stipulated in the deer act. Some are but many are not and I'm not standing next to a corroded old 19th century muzzle loader while someone drops a double charge into it in order to push velocities up.

If someone turns up with a modern firearm with factory ammunition then I'm not going to ask to see it through a chrno. However I will ask plenty of questions in relation to the ammunition and firearm to be used for the stalk. And if you carnt answer them satisfactorily ( ie read the info on the box) then it's stalk over and pcs not met. The onus is on the stalker to demonstrate to the witness that they have the knowledge to stalk safely in accordance with the standards of the performance criteria and with current legislation.

And before non hunter mentions the home loader, a decent home loader will know his load and will babble on about COL and powders and primers and full case / neck resizing etc etc etc all day long, they would have a very good understanding of the muzzle velocity and bullet weight and muzzle energy etc of their load which would satisfy me and probably the performance criteria too.

Muzzle loading is a different ball game to stalking with a 243, I enjoy a bit of muzzle loading action myself and damp powder, old percussion caps, pish wads etc etc can easily end up with a less than fatal shot. But when it works there's nothing like not seeing the pigeon fall to the ground due to the cloud of white smoke!

Skipp
 
I really don't see an ethical argument here.

When shooting foxes, you want to shoot all you see. Thankfully, with deer this is rarely the case, in which case the more time you have to observe the animals on your ground, and potentially in your sights, the better.

A thermal spotter will regularly -if not always- give you more time. Whether you get a clear shot after that is down to luck, and whether you take it is down to you. Only the last bit has an ethical dimension.
 
Well personally i think that the use of a TI device for actually spotting the beast is plain lazy, we are again taking the easy option, if you need to use it for that purpose then you either don't have the time, skills, or patience, it is as if we must get the beast each and everytime we go out without fail or its a waste of time.

There is for me a sense of pride in my ability to spot one of gods creatures in their own habitat and stalk it, reading the topography wind etc get to within shooting distance and closer, sometimes just to observe.

A witnessed stalk is by all accounts to show skill & understanding of every aspect of stalking, so imo it should be done without the aid of TI equipment.

If you were to use it to aid in the recovery of a lost or wounded beast then that is a different issue.
 
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The Forestry Commission use thermal imaging to assist with deer culling so I don't see why it should be a problem any more than using other aids such as binos and rangefinders, probably best to ask your AW before you start though.

atb Tim
 
Well personally i think that the use of a TI device for actually spotting the beast is plain lazy, we are again taking the easy option, if you need to use it for that purpose then you either don't have the time, skills, or patience, it is as if we must get the beast each and everytime we go out without fail or its a waste of time.

There is for me a sense of pride in my ability to spot one of gods creatures in their own habitat and stalk it, reading the topography wind etc get to within shooting distance and closer, sometimes just to observe.

A witnessed stalk is by all accounts to show skill & understanding of every aspect of stalking, so imo it should be done without the aid of TI equipment.

If you were to use it to aid in the recovery of a lost or wounded beast then that is a different issue.

Couldn't agree more!

atb Steve
 
Why have to prove the requirements of a muzzle loader, firstly safety and secondly many ml are not capable of producing the min muzzle velocity stipulated in the deer act. Some are but many are not and I'm not standing next to a corroded old 19th century muzzle loader while someone drops a double charge into it in order to push velocities up.

If someone turns up with a modern firearm with factory ammunition then I'm not going to ask to see it through a chrno. However I will ask plenty of questions in relation to the ammunition and firearm to be used for the stalk. And if you carnt answer them satisfactorily ( ie read the info on the box) then it's stalk over and pcs not met. The onus is on the stalker to demonstrate to the witness that they have the knowledge to stalk safely in accordance with the standards of the performance criteria and with current legislation.

And before non hunter mentions the home loader, a decent home loader will know his load and will babble on about COL and powders and primers and full case / neck resizing etc etc etc all day long, they would have a very good understanding of the muzzle velocity and bullet weight and muzzle energy etc of their load which would satisfy me and probably the performance criteria too.

Muzzle loading is a different ball game to stalking with a 243, I enjoy a bit of muzzle loading action myself and damp powder, old percussion caps, pish wads etc etc can easily end up with a less than fatal shot. But when it works there's nothing like not seeing the pigeon fall to the ground due to the cloud of white smoke!

Skipp
Paragraph 3 has me on the floor with so much pain from laughing I fear I'll need the Weekend in bed recovering!

K
 
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