Trained Deer Dog

6pointer

Well-Known Member
I was looking through the paperwork of the Scottish and English leases and for contracts and night authorisations. It states that you need a trained deer dog. Has any one ever been asked to prove that there dog can find a deer or will FC just take our word for it.If you have been asked what did you need to do eg Criteria.
 
A friend of mine fronted a bid for a FC lease in Bedfordshire last year and they stated they needed to have or have access to a trained deer dog. When he asked what constituted a trained deer dog they couldn't answer! I think there words were ' don't know, but you need to have one'.....
 
Im sure a suitably certified course to prove the dogs ability will soon be available!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder how long it will be before it to becomes compulsory, along with dsc1/2, quad, first aid etc,
JMHO
Paul
 
I was looking through the paperwork of the Scottish and English leases and for contracts and night authorisations. It states that you need a trained deer dog. Has any one ever been asked to prove that there dog can find a deer or will FC just take our word for it.If you have been asked what did you need to do eg Criteria.
i did ask that very question 18 months ago at a NGO deer branch Committee meeting, I put it to Norman Healy from the FC who was telling us how the lease system works and what is needed, I did not get a straight answer.
i am in syndicate who has just won a couple of leases down here and it was part of the bid process to have a trained dog,
we are meeting someone from the FC again very soon and I will be brining it up, so hopefully may get some sort of answers as to what they see as a trained dog and what sort of standard they thing it should be at.
 
I was looking through the paperwork of the Scottish and English leases and for contracts and night authorisations. It states that you need a trained deer dog. Has any one ever been asked to prove that there dog can find a deer or will FC just take our word for it.If you have been asked what did you need to do eg Criteria.


Does it really matter? After all, there are two bodies now that offer this service so surely everybody has access to a trained dog?
 
Does it really matter? After all, there are two bodies now that offer this service so surely everybody has access to a trained dog?

very true Shabz, I don't know about the UKSHA boys but we(UKDTR) do not have anywhere near enough teams to cover England/Wales at this present time although we hope to have more dogs and handlers who successfully complete there tests at the end on this month.
maybe in 5 years from now we may have somewhere approaching enough teams from all the tracking groups to give the bear minimum cover, then maybe the FC should look at a standard.
 
Tony I do not think there is any were near the cover and I am not sure you can wait till something might happen it is written down in Best Practice and is written down in the guide to leasing and contracting so FC should have a standard now and who is to say your standard tony or UKsha meets the required standard set by FC or SNH. Who tests the dogs before they get a lease or a contract .Looks like no one so may be this should be taken out of the paper work altogether.
 
Drawing a parallel with driven game shooting you will find teams of competent pickers up using dogs that have neither been formally trained nor been entered in field trials. Is there not a danger here that having asked the FC what a trained deer dog is you will now get some sort of formal qualification required, irrespective of whether or not the dog can perform in the field?

atb Tim
 
Tim the words are already written down in LAW. Dogs: In woodland, a suitable dog must be present to track wounded deer and prevent unnecessary suffering.
 
Tim the words are already written down in LAW. Dogs: In woodland, a suitable dog must be present to track wounded deer and prevent unnecessary suffering.

Very true Davie,
So that means that any dog will do, any dog will find dead deer, and mostly any dog will ttrack if the owner trains it to.
so where does that leave the FC....?
I know any dog........!
As for relating it to game shooting, I have seen many 100's of so called picking up dogs running over bird, eating them, picking one dropping one, the list goes on, hope you got my point...
 
I don't disagree with having a suitable dog, but there is a whole world of difference between a dog that will locate a wounded deer and a dog with qualifications to prove it
 
So what you are all saying here this is a completely useless piece of the criterion for managing deer on the NFE .Also that any dog is better than none even if it cant find its own ass to lick it.
This is the type of thing that while being well meaning could actually cause upset alarm and hamper deer welfare.:oops: Not a good situation to be in if it is under pinned by BP and DSC 1.

Quote from Bruce Sewell (Head of FES ) Despatch of wounded deer
We are committed to the humane despatch of injured or dying deer such as may result from deer vehicle collisions or ineffective shot placement. Where appropriate we use trained deer dogs to follow-up wounded deer.
 
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Yes ,
thats about the size of it at the moment with the English FC at this present time
I will be bringing up at our little meeting next month.
I
 
Good one tony can you imagine the panic if an ineffective follow up pushes a deer in to a local council estate while a FC ranger is using his appropriately trained dog that has never been assessed.
 
My dog would never pass a test but he has tracked, found and despatched 1500+ animals (I say animals as its mainly foxes he does, I don't tend to wound much but its dark when I shoot foxes so need him to help me find them etc) It would be dangerous ground to starting asking for qualifications for dogs. Maybe the owner should have to be tested in how to do use a dog?
 
Dicky Dispatch would mean ending life suggesting your shooting is some what off .lol and how do you know he would not pass a test because the standard has not be set .So in reality even if your dog is a Monkey it would still meet the current required standard of deer dog for FC and fits with BP guidance.
 
If the EU can tell us what hoovers and hair dryers to use, how long before they tell us they require Schweisshund 1 & 2 deer dog qualifications !!!
With that in mind and having a 14 mth old WHV i attend the SW Branch of Dogs4Deer (home of BMH Society) tracking events with view to getting a qualification at some point.
 
venery I hope your Wireviz dose well mate. But the sad thing is at the moment the qualification is not worth a toss till some one recognises it
 
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