DSC 2 Training gaps, reading material needed

joe6r

Well-Known Member
Hello

Seasons greetings.

I have completed my Level 1 now moved on to level 2. I have a few good stalks under my belt so far, however the time in-between stalks can be quite lengthy. I have the BDS DVD which i do watch, however its more the Gralloch inspection naming the Lymph nodes ect that I struggle with.
I feel i am constantly chasing my tail with skill fade.
Can anyone recommend some good books to keep things fresh in the mind, i have the best practice manual but after a slightly easier read lol.

All the best.

Joe
 
Cheers Tim. Got the best practice guide just trying to find something a bit lighter to read lol.
No substitute for getting out I know.
cheers

Joe
 
When you first open the deer up, your faced with a MESS of guts. .Mesenteric chain.

Moving​ on to the liver, what goes with a nice plate of liver, a glass of port of course. . . Portal node.

Bronchitis. . Cough cough. . . Windpipe / Trachea. . .Bronchial nodes.

Behind the pharyngeal. . . . Retro Pharyngeal.

Bottle of medicine. . Mediastinal node.

Not exhaustive, but you get the jist :D


Different people remember and recall things in different ways, I do it by visual association.
I associate an imaginary picture with the thing I want to remember, if you have the same form of learning it will work for you as well.

In years past I had to remember an obscene amount of information and legislation, that's the way I done it.
Some people it works for some people it dosnt, but maybe worth a bash.

In terms of L2 I think you should be able to locate and name the main lymph nodes, it shows a level of professionalism. . . and at any time should you have to contact a vet about an abnormality you will be able to describe exactly what the issue is, not a lump in the big red thingymaboab, behind the guts under its back, behind the front legs but in front of it's arse :lol:


If you want to discuss L2 before taking the plunge feel free to drop me a PM.








 
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Joe

Lots of good advice above.

Personally I learned them by rote, working my way through the lymph nodes from front to back.

In addition to Cadex's list don't forget the sub-maxillary. Easy for me to remember as I have a friend who is a maxillofacial surgeon - maxillo = face, sub = under, under your face is your jaw.

You may find this document useful as well - it's well put together with good photos and clear explanations :tiphat:: http://www.deerstalking-uk.com/PDFS/A%20DEERSTALKERS%20GUIDE%20TO%20A%20FIELD%20GRALLOCH.pdf

I am only 10 miles from Swindon, so if I can be of any help feel free to drop me a PM.
 
joe

lots of good advice above.

Personally i learned them by rote, working my way through the lymph nodes from front to back.

In addition to cadex's list don't forget the sub-maxillary. Easy for me to remember as i have a friend who is a maxillofacial surgeon - maxillo = face, sub = under, under your face is your jaw.

You may find this document useful as well - it's well put together with good photos and clear explanations :tiphat:: http://www.deerstalking-uk.com/pdfs/a deerstalkers guide to a field gralloch.pdf

i am only 10 miles from swindon, so if i can be of any help feel free to drop me a pm.

+1
 
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Location isn't an issue, naming them correctly is.


If you fail due to not naming them correctly then I would be concerned with the witness and assessor not your physiology knowledge.

Personally i would fail anyone who mispronounces them! :D
It is not "Medi-ASS-tin-al"!!
It is "Media-Stine-al"

The whole purpose is to demonstrate an psuedo advanced element of diagnosis and test of infections/defects that may be more difficult for the layman to identify.
The lymph nodes are traffic lights to other underlying issues

It matters not whether you know the names of them or indeed which organs/systems their inflammation may be linked to
If you have concerns about the lymph condition you have another action to take for someone else to deal with
 
The thing is though, how do you differentiate one lymph node from the other if you can't name them.

For example the retropharyngeal and submaxillary. . . . Both located close to one another in the head.

Furthermore if questioned by the external assessor on what action you would take if you found abnormalities in a specific area, how on earth can you be expected to know what he's talking about if you don't know their names.
Surely it makes sense, and all just for the sake of memorizing a few names?

To my mind it's a bit like going to the Doctor and telling him you have a sore leg but being unable to say whether it's your right leg, left leg, ankle, foot, thigh or knee.
 
Location isn't an issue, naming them correctly is.

I'm sorry but this is not right!
Performance Criteria 3.4 is "Inspect carcass, organs and lymph sites for normality according to legal requirements".
You can be observed doing this without having to name them, but you'll struggle to achieve this if you can't locate them! The portfolio Key Features column refers to what should be inspected by name, but the candidate is not required to be able to name them which would be rather pointless anyway seeing as they are listed in the portfolio? Obviously if you can name them it is an added bonus, but it should not be regarded as essential as you suggest.
MS
 
Obviously if you can name them it is an added bonus, but it should not be regarded as essential as you suggest.
MS

I don't think he was suggesting it is essential from a DSC2 perspective, just that as the OP he can locate them fine but has trouble naming them.

Let's try to avoid this descending into a debate about the lack of clarity in the DSC2 candidate portfolio!
 
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OK Guys, as an assessor and a witness, I can assure you that the lymph nodes do not have to be named. The candidate must be able to show the witness where they all are. If he misses any the witness should ask if there are any more. If candidate says No , then he does not meet the standard required. And for those that said " how are they going to report which nodes are suspect". You should know by now that ALL the parts of the animal are bagged up and the whole thing is shown to the vet. We are just there to observe and report anything suspect. Apart from the recording of where and when, the situation is taken out of our hands. John
 
Hi

Cheers for all the advice. Just to clarify I can locate them we'll most of the time, it's just naming them as I go.
Going to check out the links. Need a few more stalks before I go for LV2.

Many thanks

joe
 
Hi John,

I understand one of the reasons that the assessor calls candidates after having received their portfolio is to validate and authenticate what has been recorded by all parties within.

I assume as an assessor (when questioning a candidate) you are unable to prompt them as to the correct answer.

If they know the location of the lymph nodes but not their respective names, how do you go about differentiating on the phone what one's they have checked and what one's they haven't, and of course how they went about it?

It just seems sensible that if your being assessed, and part of that assessment requires you to locate specific named lymph nodes, as it does in the portfolio, the candidate putting themselves forward for the industry standard qualification might want to learn the names of the nodes they are being assessed at finding?

Please note I don't doubt what your saying, but having been a tutor and assessor in another line of work it seems perverse that a candidate can pass such an assessment whilst being unable to name the very thing he / she is being assessed at locating and examining.
 
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As above plus try to remember what the prefixes mean helps a lot

Sub - below
Retro - behind
Medi - middle/midway


Retropharyngeal - behind the pharynx (think pharynx/larynx) behind the throat

Submaxilliary - below the maxilliary (maxilla are the jaw bones hence maxillofacial surgeon someone said above) below the bend in the jaw bone

Bronchial - as above, bronchitis, top of the lungs

Mediastinal - Medi/middle - the ones in the middle of the lungs

Portal - not especially obvious, but the portal system is what carries nutrients/sugars etc from the gut to the liver, nutrients 'portal' into the body - transPORT etc hence it sits next to the portal vein where the liver attaches

Mesenteric is a tricky one, "mess" as someone said above but if your mind goes blank then just describe what you see... the mesenteric chain is the chain of lymph nodes on the small bowel... make sure you identify the nodes and not pellets of faeces! ;) So long as you can point them out correctly then job done!

Alex
 
Here's what is covered in the Candidate Brief for PC 3.4:

Performance Criteria
Inspect carcass, organs and lymph sites for normality according to legal requirements.

Key Features
Internal inspection to include the mesenteric lymph nodes and where available the retropharyngeal and Sub‐maxillary. If not available the 2 of the following lymph nodes: portal, gastric, bronchial, mediastinal. Thoracic organs, head and hooves and reproductive state inspected

Notes:
You will need to demonstrate that you inspect a carcass fully ensuring everything is normal. Note that you must check mesenteric and both the retropharyngeal and sub‐maxillary lymph nodes in the head. Head shots are not encouraged, however if a head shot has destroyed the associated lymph nodes then two other lymph sites must be checked. You will need to have full knowledge of all these sites and you may be questioned at some point on these.

And the Witness Brief:
The candidate must demonstrate ability to locate and inspect mesenteric lymph nodes and those in the head. A witness should not encourage head shots but if taken and lymph sites in the head cannot be identified because of shot damage then the candidate must identify 2 other sites as detailed in the key features of the PC. Choice of these sites may be left to the candidate.

And the role of the Assessor:
During a call, an Assessor may ask a question which requires a witness to describe what they observed e.g. ‘where did the candidate locate the sub‐maxillary lymph glands?’ If a witness is unable to answer it brings into question their competence, they could not have known if the candidate was conducting the task correctly.

So although a Candidate may not be required to actually name them, both they and the Witness need to know which lymph nodes are which and how to locate them.....or they're going to find the above instructions jolly difficult to follow I'd imagine.

Learning the names is surely simple common sense.
 
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