What qualifies as 'Good deer Management'?

rick6point5

Well-Known Member
So as per the heading, just what is good management? is it maintaining

a certain number of Deer per Acre? as they are transient and nomadic how does this work?

Does it involve say culling a certain percentage of Deer each sex within a season or over a period of time?
 
Setting the correct cull for your Objectives and knowing when to stay on the cull targets and when they are not working being able to stand back and reassess.
 
What species? What sort of acreage do you have? Most deer are not nomadic they have a range that may cover more than owned by one person, so it's good if you can develope a management plan with your neighbours
If you only have a few acres then any management plan is pretty hopeless unless you are working in conjunction with your neighbours.

You need to work out what your ground can realistically hold and you need to work that out for when there is least food available ie winter not summer when food is abundant?
The type of ground will also play a part depending on species , bare open ground without any cover will not hold the same as where deer have access to shelter.

There are formulas for working out what sort of numbers you can expect to hold on any given ground, maybe time for you to do some reading up on numbers and how to manage them.

And you are correct it's about culling a percentage across the age group of both sexes annually to keep the population stable


Again plenty written on the subject can't really be more specific without knowing your circumstances and species concerned.
 
Thanks Bogtrotter, on my perms I have Roe & a few Muntjac, they are in small numbers and the grounds vary from 3 acres to a farm split by the M6 toll which is about 700, they are also spread far and wide from west country to the midlands, I therefore as you mentioned see little point in forming any form of long term plan, some of the most productive ground is actually the smaller acreage but only as is draws in animals from other much more open ground that surrounds it and offers them shelter and a more diverse diet, the landowners that surround me are not at all easy to contact and have shown little interest in this topic for various reasons.
I asked the question as it seems the views on what 'Deer Management' is about vary greatly irrelevant of species, even on this forum!
I will look into it elsewhere.

atb
 
It starts with a set of clear objectives, hopefully agreed upon by most of the stakeholders, & then good monitoring. The monitoring doesn't have to be absolute, but it should be able to establish trends to see if the "management" system being applied is working. You cannot manage wildlife or even use the term "management" without monitoring.

Good game management is only possible with good monitoring.

Rule 1 in game management "The land owners objectives come first." Other stakeholders still need to be considered, however they should sit below the landowners objectives in importance. I always try to place the objectives of the folk who live with or close to the wildlife & share the landscape with it second in importance to the landowners & above the values of those those who live distant.

I guess the second rule is "Good game management is about good people management." One of my old mentors often stated "The animals are easy, it's the people who are difficult."

Good topic! Looking forward to this discussion.

Sharkey

PS
We have a Game management course which is available through The University Of Queensland. It is available by correspondence & I would recommend it or something similar if it exists in the UK to those who are in leadership positions in your "management" groups. Some of our larger hunting associations have sponsored members to complete this course & it has been a measurable benefit.
 
I asked the question as it seems the views on what 'Deer Management' is about vary greatly irrelevant of species, even on this forum!
I will look into it elsewhere.

atb

You did not state your objectives in the OP.

There are many forms of "Game management". eg

You'd like the maximum number of trophies? "Intensive trophy management" Keep the sex ratios 70:30.

You'd like a mix of trophies & meat animals? "Trophy management" Cull annual increase concentrating on older girls, sick or malformed animals & keeping sex ratios at 50:50.

You'd like to see deer seen as a valuable animal by all the stakeholders, have their impact on natural & agricultural processes minimised & still have deer to kill, with a lower importance placed upon trophies than the health of the deer & habitat? "EDM/QDM" Keep the deer density low. Maintain equal sex ratios 50:50, don't shoot young boys so as its older boys who fill the girls not yearlings, thus keeping the rut short & fecundity high. Basically, by keeping a high fecundity & recruitment you can kill more deer even from smaller populations, but fewer trophies.

These are very very basic outlines of a few styles of management, each situation will require its own plan. There is no "one size fits all" in Game management.

Sharkey
 
Hey Sharkey, How you doing ? been fishing recently? thanks for the posts some really interesting stuff, I have not specified any objectives as I was looking for some general pointers really, I am not looking for trophy animals as the landowners have no interest and neither do I. The only real objective would be to get it to fit the 'regular meat on the table' scenario rather than any other. All my perms I have Have been shot to try and maintain a balance in the sexes right or wrongly. I am not sure I understand the point you made concerning the younger Bucks? could you expand on the fecundity & recruitment point for me

regard

Rick
 
Good deer management should aim to produce a healthy population of deer which is in balance with the local environment.
Trophy hunting should play no part in this as it is not compatible with natures intentions! Natural selection is based upon survival of the fittest, not shooting the fittest!!!
For muntjac I would suggest that you impose a shoot on sight policy with due regard for dependant fawns. They are a very invasive species that are damaging our countryside to a far greater extent than most would appreciate! As a woodland impact assessor they give me immense concern!
Roe however are an indigenous species which are part of our natural woodland biodiversity. They still require managing as we have no predators to cope with them, but we should do our best to replicate nature when doing so. A good start point would be a 60:20:20 split for Young:Mature:Old. However, I would always try to preserve any very good mature animal, male or female. Try to establish an acceptable holding capacity for the land concerned. This is difficult to quantify as it will be decided by such factors as owners view, RTA's, deer impact, etc..
Once you have established your holding capacity you can then cull anything over that in accordance with ratios above. However, you also need to factor in immigration and emmigration as well as other losses such as poaching, RTA's, etc..
As you can see, it can never be an exact science!
The best thing to do is speak openly with the landowner and discuss the above points. Think of the deer and not your agenda's. Become a wolf and not a trophy hunter and you will not go too far wrong!
MS
 
Hey Sharkey, How you doing ? been fishing recently? thanks for the posts some really interesting stuff, I have not specified any objectives as I was looking for some general pointers really, I am not looking for trophy animals as the landowners have no interest and neither do I. The only real objective would be to get it to fit the 'regular meat on the table' scenario rather than any other. All my perms I have Have been shot to try and maintain a balance in the sexes right or wrongly. I am not sure I understand the point you made concerning the younger Bucks? could you expand on the fecundity & recruitment point for me

regard

Rick

What you seem to be looking for is EDM/QDM type management. By letting the younger boys walk you will have some increase in teenage & young adult boys. These boys are much more successful at filling the girls than yearlings, so most girls should be filled on their first oestrus cycle in the "rut". An increase in fecundity. The older boys doing the work hopefully are a couple of years older & should have survived a couple of winters & had a bit of selection pressure already. The oestrus cycle is triggered by day length (not the moon as some may argue) some variations can occur depending on the seasons & the nutritional plane of the girls, but this is only a few days either side of the day length trigger. It is the girls cycling that brings on the "true rut" in the boys, they may have been displaying sexual behaviour before this, but its the girls coming into oestrus which is the actual rut. Rutting takes up a lot of energy & resources, so having the girls filled in the shortest possible time conserves resources & survivability for their young. An increase in recruitment. By having all the girls filled & squirting out young at the same time is also an effective anti predator measure, as the young have better survival rates by "swamping" predators with "calving/fawning clusters". Again increasing recruitment.

Some advocates for EDM?QDM seem to think that letting the young boys walk till 3YO will have a profound effect on the numbers of trophies taken. In my experience it won't. Boys aren't trophies till they are at least a few years older & most are still killed before they reach this age with this style of management. The only way to ensure a consistent crop of trophies is to have a trophy management plan. Just for discussion, its possible to produce over three times more trophies with a simple trophy management plan than the basic outline above. With intensive trophy management this can be doubled again without any increase in deer numbers or damage caused by deer, simply by managing sex ratios & the choice of culls. Numbers are still in balance with the lands carrying capacity & all the deer are healthy & better specimens as the land/herd is producing 40% less animals each year so these resources are available to the breeding girls, their young & of course the boys & their antlers. The down fall with this system is that instead of producing 30 carcass's per 100 animals there will only be half that. That nutrition however goes into the living deer instead of producing the extra 15 dead animals. Simples?

Sharkey

I've been hoping to get wet this weekend, but there has been a lot of rain & the vis is pretty bad. Yes I know we whinge when it doesn't rain & then when it does. lol. This weekend is usually (90% of years) when the annual wave of small black marlin passes Sydney, I was hoping to get out & put a spear in one but given the weather I'll head out bush instead & enjoy the rare cool wet weekend out there. After this weekend the marlin will disperse from their "wave" & not be in the same density for another year. What about yourself? Had any luck hunting & fishing?
 
Thanks MS for the post, some good info in there much appreciated, agree with your comments on the Muntjac and do try within reason to take them when seen, although they are thin on the ground numbers have increased, specifically within 1 area adjacent to a long band of mixed wood backing on to a large unshot property.
I have a limited numbers of camera's but do get good feedback from the landowners so there is a good degree of monitoring, though I am sure this could be improved. I am seeing a number of different ratios being mentioned, I suppose this would be the case as each objective/land works in a different way based upon such thing as food sources, shelter, deer numbers, external pressures, etc. As much as I would like to spend more time on my perms, my time is not always my own.
atb
 
Sharky

Thanks for the response, I think EDM fits the bill, increasing numbers would be the objective for me, but I may need to either be much more specific regards the animal I take or figure out if not taking any animals other than those obviously poorer specimens for a season or 2 will increase numbers on its own. I would if possible like to rely on natural selection! not sure if this is even possible. What are you thoughts on feeding points, possibly during the leaner times?
Anyhow much to to think about and learn in meantime, you input is much appreciated.

As far as getting wet myself is concerned, it has been limited to a few outing on the longboard in mushy onshore rubbish, 1 fishing trip in the Kayak which blanked & a few excursions with the old speargun getting just enough for dinner! Had a few deer but been on the Pigeons with some good bags, though that may be luck.

Where do you go for the Marlin? My mate in Drummoyne says that he has seen good fish being landed within sight of the city centre & from the shore from Broken Bay right down to the Harbour mouth?

cheers
 
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Supplementary feeding is fine if you have thought through the effects & don't suddenly stop when it is needed the most. One of the most frequently raised points on these types of threads on this forum is the very small parcels of land which people are shooting on. Diversionary feeding at the times when the deer are most vulnerable on adjacent properties could be of assistance I feel. I have set up grain throwers to throw small amounts of grain (not really enough to consider it "feeding") on several properties at dawn & dusk to reduce the risky behaviour of the game being managed at these most dangerous periods.

We have 3 species of marlin off the East Coast Black, Blue & Striped. Small Blacks are the most commonly encountered by spearo's, particularly at this time as they ride the east coast current south in high numbers. The progress can be tracked by monitoring the current & talking to fishers up the coast as they pass through in a wave. These fish travel close to the coast at times, particularly if the current is "in" on the coast. I like to find a headland or point that sticks out into deeper water & helps to act like a funnel to concentrate fish as they have to swim around it. Being on Sydney's North Shore my favourite spot is at Bluefish point which is the northern point of North Head (Sydney Harbour's Entrance). Bluefish has 30m water just off the rocks & it cops some swell. I like a bit of swell & wash as when the "soda" tails out from the cliff large schools of baitfish hang under this. Its a great spot to shoot pelagic fish including small black marlin. I've shot marlin less than 30m out from the rocks here. If someone wanted to shoot a marlin "rock hopping" (without a boat) this weekend & this location would be the best place in the world I can think off to do it. Just meed to be fit enough to swim into the current for several hours a day for a few days & then tow the fish back to a safe exit point & then drag it up the cliff. I have no doubt that several opportunities would present when the current is in.

Sharkey
 
I would have thought that if you could 'bring' in a few deer off a neighbouring plot through feeding up a particular place the problem would be holding them, surely if the land could do that off it's own offerings the deer would find it by themselves, I can understand if you wanted to provide in the leaner time of the year but then as you say it would need to be gradually fazed out.

I have a problem getting my mind around spear fishing in the same backyard as Carcarion carcarius....or Carcharhinus leucas..for that matter
 
I have a problem getting my mind around spear fishing in the same backyard as Carcarion carcarius....or Carcharhinus leucas..for that matter

Maybe thats why I've been called Sharkey since my teens. lol I doubt that many folks in spearfishing circles would even know my first name is Bob. When I get called Sharkey I know I'm with mates, Bob, usually means business & Robert usually means trouble.

Sharkey

Edit to add.
With the type of diversionary feeding I described, you're not trying to hold the deer. In this instance you are just keeping them safe when the shooters are next door. Two hours latter when the guns are gone who cares?

Hey? You ride a Mal? Aloha! We had "Dukes" day last weekend, 100 year anniversary of surfing in Aust. My missus did 3 of the demonstration events including the "legends" down at Freshie beach over the weekend. I just participated in the festivities at the cocktail party on Friday night, but then back out west to play with deer next morning.
 
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