Buying a second hand 17hmr

Olaf

Well-Known Member
Hi, I'm due to buy my 1st .17hmr and I've been offered a few 2nd hand rifles however I'm not ture if 2nd hand is the way to go and if so what to look out for. I bought my .22lr 2nd hand but that's because I was told that its rare to wear them out. I believe that the .17hmr is another story though. Does anyone have any thoughts on this ? What should I look out for ? Any help would be greatfully received.
Kind regards, Olaf
 
Although the hmr is quick it's not that quick aparently you won't wear out a barrell unless its does tens of thousands. Go for quality Sako Quad,Anschuzt or Weirach and you won't go wrong. I got a cracking quad both barrells virtually new £400 .
Good luck
 
if at all possible always shoot a second hand rifle.
Use the rounds that makes it work (usually 17gr over 20gr)

Lots of options out there now.

Might be worth locating a good (but unlikely to be cheap) ammo supplier locally first.

Buy ammo in as large a batch as you can once you have found which one it likes.
as a matter of course watch out for squib rounds, very rare considering the volume of ammo flying about but stories are increasing in regularity.
HMR's dont like it when you send another round up the tube with one stuck in it!
 
if at all possible always shoot a second hand rifle.
Use the rounds that makes it work (usually 17gr over 20gr)

Lots of options out there now.

Might be worth locating a good (but unlikely to be cheap) ammo supplier locally first.

Buy ammo in as large a batch as you can once you have found which one it likes.
as a matter of course watch out for squib rounds, very rare considering the volume of ammo flying about but stories are increasing in regularity.
HMR's dont like it when you send another round up the tube with one stuck in it!

Thanks, that's realy helpful. I've hear about these squib rounds and they sound rather horrible,what exactly happens ? Are there any tell tale signs that the bullet did not exit the barrel ? For example, does it make a blunt sound or anything like that ?
 
Although the hmr is quick it's not that quick aparently you won't wear out a barrell unless its does tens of thousands. Go for quality Sako Quad,Anschuzt or Weirach and you won't go wrong. I got a cracking quad both barrells virtually new £400 .
Good luck
Thanks for this too Liongeorge, I did not realise that the hmr can take quite so many rounds down the pipe before its had it. I agree with the quality purchace rule that you mention too, I've sourced 2 end hand Anschutz rifles and a Weirauch so far. I intend to buy the one that shoots the best groups, so if I can't shoot it before its purchase then I'm not buying it.
 
General condition of secondhand is a fair indicator id say,same as anything, if its not been well looked after you will soon tell, my cz may not be top quality gear but its done 15ish thousand rounds and still shoots really well, solid workhorse and reliable! not everyones choice but works well
 
I agree, the CZ's are good guns, however, I've already got a .22 lr Anschutz that's fantastic and only cost me £150 second hand. The .22 has shot 2k since I've had it, it groups at 2 1/2 " at 100 yds, and it was 30 years old when I bought it ! The Anschutz rifles that I have on offer are £340 and £380 which I think is pretty cheap considering that all of the CZ's were around that £300 to £400 bracket too.
What kind of grouping are you still getting with your CZ now ? Is it much different from when you 1st got it or is it still the same ?
Thanks for your advice.
 
floated and bedded it from new, factory trigger is fine in mine so didnt bother doing it and it still groups at 1/2 an inch or so at 100yds after all its had through it:)
 
copied and pasted from airgunbbs>firearms>HMR throat erosion, posted by "some bloke"
Date: 16-4-2012. Time: 0830hrs
HMR throat erosion?

I've shot some 8000~9000 rounds through my Sako Quad hmr barrel and it occasionally goes off song but clears up again after a darn good shafting with Tetra gun copper solvent/amonia and Bench rest copper solvent. Of late it has taken longer to settle down again after a good rodding but it gets there in the end.

All was well until I ran out of Hornady HMR rounds, my local RFD had none in stock. I went with his recomendation of some Winchester rounds on the understanding that he would change them if the gun no likey. I went to zero them at 50 yards as a starter. Well first magazine full and they didn't load smoothly: The necks arn't crimped and the proud edge fouled the breech as the bolt pushed them forwards.

First shot there was a very unusual report, I checked the bullet had left the barrel ok. Next few rounds were all over the place I gave up trying groups of three and went for five instead. Typical group was one sounded bad, and the others grouped about 6", sometimes missing the A4 sheet. I gave up after 40 shots. I've given the barrel the most intense shafting ever and it's still all over the place.

I tried zeroing again this morning, first with some Remingtons that I was given, no success and then some Hornady's that I managed to source last week. At one point I got some touching at 50 yards but on the whole still flying all over the place. I again gave it a ruddy good seeing to this morning with a new nylon and new bronze brush and became aware that the cleaning rod doen't start to twist untill the brush is something like three to five inches up the barrel. Is that normal?

The crown looks perfect even with a magnifying glass and in desperation I have cleaned out and put new baffles into the Utra mod.
The rifle was supplied as a .22. The HMR barrel is listed separately so if i want to change it I'll have to go through the variation rigmarol.

Thoughts and ideas please gents.
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The key response is this:
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Sir, in talking to friends over the water, this time last year on reading a similar tale of woe on another site, I find that your SAKO quad barrel has lasted about three times longer than any of theirs.

Be grateful.

A squint into the area of the leade of any of their barrels shows strong speckling/frosting and a marked reduction in accuracy in around 3000 rounds or so. A pal of mine in Eugene OR shot out his barrel in under 2000 rounds - from 3/4" ten shot groups to 3-4" groups - he is no mean shooter, being the county BR champion as well. The lack of rotation on your cleaning rod shows that your rifling has been 'burned out' in this vital area, and no amount of cleaning will replace it.

In a word, your barrel is now a a hose.

IMO writing a snottogram to SAKO will do you little good, as a round-count like yours would be considered far above average, but you could try it and let us know how you get on - there are more than a few such rifle combos in my club.

tac

Edit - a couple of points re your habit of shooting consecutive groups. - IMO you are treating this hyper-velocity rimfire like a competition target rifle, something it is decidedly not. It was intended to be used in a less frantic manner, and I have to ask if you'd shoot any centre-fire hunting cartridge the same way? Throat erosion of the type you've got only takes place when the constant firing of groups does not permit the gun to cool down sufficiently - this is why many of the higher-calibre target rifle shooters change out their barrels for every season of shooting. Some, like the 6.5-284, burn out in less than 1500 shots and are useless thereafter except as expensive rebar for laying concrete flooring. You seem to have joined the same group of shooters, but after an extraordinarily long life for your barrel. Like I said, be grateful.
 
copied and pasted from airgunbbs>firearms>HMR throat erosion, posted by "some bloke"
Date: 16-4-2012. Time: 0830hrs
HMR throat erosion?
I've shot some 8000~9000 rounds through my Sako Quad hmr barrel and it occasionally goes off song but clears up again after a darn good shafting with Tetra gun copper solvent/amonia and Bench rest copper solvent. Of late it has taken longer to settle down again after a good rodding but it gets there in the end.

All was well until I ran out of Hornady HMR rounds, my local RFD had none in stock. I went with his recomendation of some Winchester rounds on the understanding that he would change them if the gun no likey. I went to zero them at 50 yards as a starter. Well first magazine full and they didn't load smoothly: The necks arn't crimped and the proud edge fouled the breech as the bolt pushed them forwards.

First shot there was a very unusual report, I checked the bullet had left the barrel ok. Next few rounds were all over the place I gave up trying groups of three and went for five instead. Typical group was one sounded bad, and the others grouped about 6", sometimes missing the A4 sheet. I gave up after 40 shots. I've given the barrel the most intense shafting ever and it's still all over the place.

I tried zeroing again this morning, first with some Remingtons that I was given, no success and then some Hornady's that I managed to source last week. At one point I got some touching at 50 yards but on the whole still flying all over the place. I again gave it a ruddy good seeing to this morning with a new nylon and new bronze brush and became aware that the cleaning rod doen't start to twist untill the brush is something like three to five inches up the barrel. Is that normal?

The crown looks perfect even with a magnifying glass and in desperation I have cleaned out and put new baffles into the Utra mod.
The rifle was supplied as a .22. The HMR barrel is listed separately so if i want to change it I'll have to go through the variation rigmarol.

Thoughts and ideas please gents.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The key response is this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir, in talking to friends over the water, this time last year on reading a similar tale of woe on another site, I find that your SAKO quad barrel has lasted about three times longer than any of theirs.

Be grateful.

A squint into the area of the leade of any of their barrels shows strong speckling/frosting and a marked reduction in accuracy in around 3000 rounds or so. A pal of mine in Eugene OR shot out his barrel in under 2000 rounds - from 3/4" ten shot groups to 3-4" groups - he is no mean shooter, being the county BR champion as well. The lack of rotation on your cleaning rod shows that your rifling has been 'burned out' in this vital area, and no amount of cleaning will replace it.

In a word, your barrel is now a a hose.

IMO writing a snottogram to SAKO will do you little good, as a round-count like yours would be considered far above average, but you could try it and let us know how you get on - there are more than a few such rifle combos in my club.

tac

Edit - a couple of points re your habit of shooting consecutive groups. - IMO you are treating this hyper-velocity rimfire like a competition target rifle, something it is decidedly not. It was intended to be used in a less frantic manner, and I have to ask if you'd shoot any centre-fire hunting cartridge the same way? Throat erosion of the type you've got only takes place when the constant firing of groups does not permit the gun to cool down sufficiently - this is why many of the higher-calibre target rifle shooters change out their barrels for every season of shooting. Some, like the 6.5-284, burn out in less than 1500 shots and are useless thereafter except as expensive rebar for laying concrete flooring. You seem to have joined the same group of shooters, but after an extraordinarily long life for your barrel. Like I said, be grateful.

Thanks for all of this info. I actually think that I might reconsider the whole second hand idea now. Thanks for the advice.
 
Since a 22LR, 22WMR, 17Mach II, and a 17HMR run at roughly the same chamber pressure, why aren't these calibers shot out as quickly? Or is cleaning rod wear the real culprit? Or was it the crappy ammo that seem to to abound these days?? :-| ~Muir

PS: get a 22WMR and be happy.
 
My shooting buddy bought a Quad as he thought CZs were beneath him! all he has had are problems with cycling the ammo from the mag, its even cought on the mag and pushed the bullet back into the casing a few times. My CZ keeps on delivering...... Annys and Weirachs seem great as well. Buy New in my opinion and have the backing of a good warranty
Although the hmr is quick it's not that quick aparently you won't wear out a barrell unless its does tens of thousands. Go for quality Sako Quad,Anschuzt or Weirach and you won't go wrong. I got a cracking quad both barrells virtually new £400 .
Good luck
 
Last edited:
Or was it the crappy ammo that seem to to abound these days?? :-| ~Muir

As Muir says I think this is more the case.

I have just had to buy another brick after getting through some 4000 rounds of Hornady blue tips I bought a year ago.

When I was buying the Hornady red tips in the old style boxes I could always shoot 1/2" groups, the blue tips would at best will produce 1" groups.

Before I bought this brick I decided to use up some old Winchesters I still had half a box of.
I went to check zero, and after only two rounds my many thousands of rounds old CZ was back to clover leaf shooting.
The first box of the new brick of HMR, which are now red tipped, and the groups open up again.

I still have a box of the original red tipped Hornady and, when I can bring my self to use them up, I'll see if they group as well as they used to.
 
Thanks, that's realy helpful. I've hear about these squib rounds and they sound rather horrible,what exactly happens ? Are there any tell tale signs that the bullet did not exit the barrel ? For example, does it make a blunt sound or anything like that ?[/QUOTE

On the 3 occasions it happened to me it was with Winchester rounds in a cz 452. i have a few left at a good price if you want them :), it sounded like a misfire and the next round wouldn't chamber. The first time it happened I tried to close the bolt a couple of times before checking for an obstruction. After finding a bullet in the barrel I knew what to look for the next time it happened.

I like cz for value for money etc.

Keith
 
I have just changed from a CZ .17 to a sako .22 WMR

I used the blue tip .17 ammo without fault in the CZ, mine did not like the red tip one bit, have used the .17 for quite a while and it has been a pretty good piece of kit, it used to throw a wobbler for a few rounds after a scrub out but all in all produced good long range rabbit rifle. never used it for foxes as I didn't feel right on the bullet weight to power ratio but a good rabbit load.

I now use the .22 lr for rabbit work and the WMR for short range foxing, and rabbits to 100 yds, brilliant piece of kit, the .22 is a CZ and is as accurate as any other make, I have only just got the sako quad with .22 + .22 WMR barrels and it is FANTASTIC grouping is less than .50 inch on both barrels at 75 and 100 yds respectively, have what you can afford, I don't believe there is a bad rifle out there now its all down to preference and if you like the rifle , you will shoot better with it without a doubt.
 
Phillip:
A bit of wisdom to pass on the next fellow crabbing about his 17HMRs performance: Red Tip, Blue Tip. They are all the same and made at the same factory. Only the manufacturing LOT and accompanying number varies.

You of course, have wisely skipped the mess and jumped into a sensible rifle! in a sensible chambering! Congrats. You've made a friend for life. I love 22WMR and you will too.

Now. If only you guys could get the 5mm Magnum!;)~Muir
 
Hi Muir

Not sure now, but I believe I had Hornady and Remington rounds on the .17 one didn't like the rifle or vice versa (already forgotten about the .17)


The Sako WMR -The grouping is fantastic, I firstly zeroed in on 33 gr Remington and then tried the 30 gr Hornady V max both in BT, The grouping is brilliant, the rifle performance is faultless, Hornady 30gr is perfect for the rifle, I have had some outstanding results from zeroing and the short time with the rifle it has proved itself in the field many fold.

Started off zeroing in at 75 metres with the remington 33gr loads and over the weekend switched to Hornady 30 gr and finished of at 100 mtrs off the bipod in a good weather situation, the five shot grouping is less than .50 of an inch. - that will be ok for now :D I guess
 
Outstanding. My CZ has never really been benched at 100 but from a loose rest I have had five shots cutting at 80M. That was with Federal Classic 30 grain HP. My gun loves them so when the ranch store had them on sale I bought two bricks of them. I'm set for a while, too! :thumb:~Muir
 
Buy new. I have just shot out my CZ HMR after 10000 rounds plus, but it was so good that I am replacing it with exactly the same. It is annoying that one cannot just get a replacement barrel at economic cost. We also have a sako which is good but not so handy for shooting from a vehicle. Good luck RTT
 
A little OT but I chronoed my new 5mm Rimfire Magnum rifle tonight. It has a 23" tube, shot at 70F temp, 3500' altitude, and the chrono 15 ft from the muzzle.
TCMAyChrono201230grainHP.jpg


Note the average of 2546 fps? With a 30 grain bullet that is 418 ft/lbs muzzle energy. (244 ft/lb ME for the 17 grain HMR) Powerful and accurate. I haphazardly fired my last eight rounds at a staple in a target someone had left up. Didn't hit the staple but all eight cut each other in a hole a half inch across.~Muir
 
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