Can anyone please quote firearms guidance with regards to....

stalker.308

Well-Known Member
To give context, I have some goat stalking my cousin is from another county and has a restricted ticket. They will not life the restrictions despite having a fair bit of experience and an open ticket already on his .223 and other calibres. Anyway to cut a long story short, he wanted goat adding to his certificate, so he can use his restricted conditioned deer calibre on my ground. I included a letter stating he had permission from me, the only stalker on the ground, to stalk with me. The firearms department have said my letter is meaningless the only one they would accept is one from the landowner.

My landowner does not know my cousin but trusts my judgement on who I bring on the ground so I will not ask him for a letter as this is above and beyond. There are plenty of people who gain their tickets from bought stalks, so can anyone quote any relevant home office guidance on this? They really are playing hard ball on all things ot do with his conditions and this 'letter' request is just unjustified.

Cheers in advance.
 
i cant quote any guidelines but i have gone through this with a variation with my firearms and even though i have permission from syndicate runner it was permission from the landowner i needed as well ,atb wayne
 
the owner is irrelevant

The person with the sporting rights is the person who dictates permission and in this case I would say your FLO is wrong.
However, if you decide to allow your cousin to shoot by himself on this land and the farmer is not aware or does not wish this that is a different story.

I had a letter from a lease holder to do exactly what you ask some 20 years ago.
The land owner wouldn't have known me from a man in the street! he certainly wouldnt be involved in any discussion as to whether my rifle was conditioned for one animal or another.
 
well this is really interesting as i have had a similar thing to do with calibre and my force wouldnt budge either and its been an on going thing for quite some time
 
permission is from the "Holder of the sporting rights" - you cannot give your cousin permission as you do not "hold" the sporting rights, you are permitted to shoot there by the holder - who in this case just happens to be the land owner - if you "owned or leased" the sporting rights, then you could pass on that permission.

It is a question in the DSC1 if I recall correctly.

Mike
 
The law states "land owner or his agent" - i.e. the person with the authority to sign it off.

Very few of my permissions are signed by the actual land owner - it's at the discretion of the person managing the land. Mine are all things like "farm manager" "director of golf" etc.
 
Very few of my permissions are signed by the actual land owner - it's at the discretion of the person managing the land. Mine are all things like "farm manager" "director of golf" etc.

I think this may be a bit of a grey area and depends on specific details of the management contract etc. I am told that farm management contracts have become very complex - for example they have to appear to be some sort of a profit sharing initiative rather than a straight lease of land in order to claim tax exemptions.

My local farmer is fine with me shooting land he owns, but when I asked about land that he contract farms he said he was not allowed to give me permission and I needed to ask the other landowners personally. Turns out one of the farms he manages is owned by an anti-shooter and has an enormous herd of fallow on it. Even my farmer isnt allowed to shoot them even though the are decimating the crops! So a farm management contract definitely does not confer automatic shooting rights to the holder!
 
I dont know what the answer here is but if you were to compose the document then you could minimise the hassle to the landowner as they would only need to sign it.
 
Just a thought.... How do all these offers of free stalking or swaps work?

Can we only offer stalking to people with "open" ticket? I've been stalking on ground other than my own without the landowners permission.
 
I think this is a two fold question.

If you have a restricted FAC, that means you only have permission to stalk on land deemed suitable by the Chief Whatever of Police, then if you are invited to stalk DEER somewhere you are fine to go as long as it has been deemed suitable for your calibre, subject to you also being able to shoot deer as they are on that calibres conditions.

Here, he has a closed ticket, so the land must be deemed suitable by the Chief Whatever of police, but he only has deer on his certificate not goat, so he can't use his own rifle even if the land was cleared as suitable.
 
As pointed out by stalker.308, there are two main issues or three if one includes whether the quarry species is authorised. The issue of a certificate holder with a more restrictive condition (closed) certificate, establishing that land has been approved (for the cartridge used or more powerful cartridge) by the chief officer of police for the area in which the land lies, is covered by Chapter 13 paragraphs 12 and 13 of the Home Office Guidance. I have reproduced it here.

13.12 It should not be difficult for the
certificate holder whose certificate is to be
conditioned to allow shooting only on land
approved by the chief officer of police, and
with whom the responsibility lies, to establish
whether an area of land has been approved
for their type and calibre of firearm without
consulting the local police. In most cases it is
likely that the landowner, tenant or agent will
be able to provide confirmation. It should
only be necessary for the certificate holder to
check with the police in a minority of cases
and it is expected that in only a small
number of those will it be necessary to
inspect the land.

13.13 When land inspections are required,
the knowledge of local shooters, stalkers,
gamekeepers etc. may be drawn upon. This is
particularly important in cases of doubt.
Decisions to refuse approval on public safety
grounds should not be based on the
assessment of a police officer with little or
no experience in such matters and the views
of those experienced in the field use of
firearms should be sought before final
decisions are made. (end of quote)

The issue of whom is entitled to give permission is another matter entirely as is whether the quarry species is authorised by the certificate.
There should be no problem for visiting stalkers with a 'closed certificate' as long as the visitor establishes with the host that the land has been approved, perhaps in the process of grant or renewal of the host's certificate.
 
I included a letter stating he had permission from me, the only stalker on the ground, to stalk with me.

My landowner does not know my cousin but trusts my judgement on who I bring on the ground


This implies that you have the "Sporting Rights" and control who comes on and what guests you bring.
If you want to circumvent this request from the FLO you will need a letter confirming this as it appears to be the sticking point
 
Stalker .308 hello,

A question for anyone in this situation is - Are they the lease holder, which would be classed as "Occupier" as in " land owner, agent or occupier" I think that's the quote.

If so then the lease will state whether an individual is able to take others on the land and more than likely also state accompanied or not, and, if the lease holder can sub let (most leases I have come across will not allow that for very good reasons) whether payment is involved or not makes no difference.

If an individual is not the lease holder of the shooting rights and permission is all by word of mouth, and only for a specific individual from their land owner/shooting rights holder, then I can see the problem in granting an FAC condition on the word of someone who does not have that right. Permission from the land owner in that scenario is the only way. Why would that be a problem, it is simple enough to ask for the answer will be yes or no, problem is solved.

It could be that an individual is granting named land on an FAC and has no lease rights or permission to do so.

There are people out there taking others out on land they consider they have "their permission" but that "permission" is often literally only given to them and not anyone else, overnight there is no insurance and several Firearms laws broken.


I am not suggesting this is your position stalker .308 I am just listing what may/may not be the problem.

Best regards.

Jon.
 
Back
Top