certification for homeloading

geoshot

Well-Known Member
Do I need any?
I contacted my local firearms enquiry team and they said just to write to them informing them of my intent to homeload, but I thought that I would need to acquire an explosives certificate.
Any helpful advice is welcome.
Thanks
Geoshot
 
I have an explosives certificate but I only need it because I play with black powder. Normal powders for homeloading are classed as propelants and not explosives hence no need for an explosives certificate.
 
To reload you do not need any additional certification unless you want to use black powder, then you would need an Acquire and Keep explosives license, but as modern powders are classed as propellants and not explosives then you can purchase without an explosives license and store in limited quantities along with primers, if you search for MESR regulations which will give you a good idea of what is allowed.

5 Kg of Shooters powder without registration, just checked
 
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Cheers for that Gimlet
Given the conflicting advice I have received from some of the firearms enquiry team in the past I thought it better to check.
The explosives certificate application form isn't exactly clear on the issue either, but that's no surprise.
Thanks
 
No, no need for any certification and there is certainly no need to write to the firearms licensing department unless you wish to up your holding to take account of additional expanding bullets -it's up to you what you do in the privacy of your own home! It's propellant powder you'll be purchasing not 'explosive' such as black powder.

You will need to produce your FAC when you purchase expanding bullets/missiles in order to prove to the RFD that you have the correct condition on it to possses such prohibited items, but the RFD does not have to enter the purchase on your FAC - just note it in his dealers register.

Be aware that expanding bullets are classified as 'ammunition' in their own right by virtue of S.5 Firearms Act 1968 and will count towards your overall ammo allowance even if not loaded into 'fully assembled' ammunition. Check out this thread in the Legal Issues section for further info on that aspect: http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?21179-Ammunition-bullets

Good luck and enjoy it.
 
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As an 'ex-cop' I can understand your wish to stay on the right side of the law.

You've referred the question to a 'civilian' police department, and received erroneous advice. That's quite common, and may get worse as more front-line officers with experience leave the service under the new tory regime. What more b**sh*t are they going to come up with?

You can handload as much ammo as you like subject to your Part II FAC limits. No certificate or diplomas needed... just follow recommendations as it's your neck. You don't need an Explosives Licence until you exceed a personal holding of 5 KGS of smokeless powder, or use Blackpowder .... which is unlikely.

ATB
 
As an 'ex-cop' I can understand your wish to stay on the right side of the law.

You've referred the question to a 'civilian' police department, and received erroneous advice. That's quite common, and may get worse as more front-line officers with experience leave the service under the new tory regime. What more b**sh*t are they going to come up with?

You can handload as much ammo as you like subject to your Part II FAC limits. No certificate or diplomas needed... just follow recommendations as it's your neck. You don't need an Explosives Licence until you exceed a personal holding of 5 KGS of smokeless powder, or use Blackpowder .... which is unlikely.

ATB
Nice answer, but could do without the political commentary, thanks.
 
As the others have said, you do not need any certification. Speaking from personal experience, you will need to keep a log of rounds loaded - either on your FAC or a separate sheet. This will be the means to prove that you have been using your rifle and consuming ammunition when it comes to FAC renewal time! My local Firearms Dept was pretty good on this point, but in other regions you might get a lot of hassle.
 
surely when you buy bullets the recording on the FAC will show purchasing and by definition "use".

I buy ammunition but dont record how many I fired and where.
I could be burying them in the back garden for all they know.

I think the recording of made up rounds and dates was only relevant when police forces counted assembled rounds as part of allocation but not components. coverd you ass if you have 100000 bullets but only 100 assembled cartridges.

that is not the case now. bullets (or heads as some people refer to them) need to be recorded on your FAC.
 
that is not the case now. bullets (or heads as some people refer to them) need to be recorded on your FAC.

Sorry to disabuse you of that notion but expanding bullets do not need to be recorded on your FAC - the RFD will need to have a sight of it to confirm that it has the condition allowing possession of S.5 expanding on it, and he can therefore legally sell them to you, but there is no need for them to be entered.

It's specifically mentioned in the Home Office Guidance:

3.17 Category (xv) extends the prohibition
on the various types of prohibited
ammunition to the actual bullet or missile
itself, not just the complete round of
ammunition (a complete round consists of
the bullet, the cartridge case, the propellant
and the primer). Certain categories of shooter
such as deerstalkers and vermin controllers
are exempt from the requirement to obtain
the authority of the Secretary of State to
possess expanding ammunition (see Chapter
4) and will have the appropriate condition
entered on their certificate (see Appendix 3).
There is no need for the bullets to be listed
separately on the certificate, other than in the
circumstances described below. However,
where a certificate holder requests large
quantities of bullets, it should be remembered
that the total number of bullets authorised
counts towards their overall limit on
possession of expanding ammunition. The
exception to the rule on listing bullets
separately on a certificate applies in the case
of a certificate holder who wishes to possess
a variety of different types of bullets. This
may be reflected in a relatively higher
overall limit on possession and, in these
circumstances, the bullets may be listed
separately to help avoid unnecessary
stockpiling of complete rounds. It is not
necessary for the dealer making the sale to
record transactions of expanding bullets on
the certificate but the sale should be recorded
in the dealer’s register.

A bit of discussion on the subject recently took place on this thread:http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?21179-Ammunition-bullets
 
+1 Orion.
Nor is there any legal necesity to record ammunition loaded or make any entries on your certificate of ammunition that you have reloaded yourself only of any ammunition transfered to you from others.
 
I did not say there was a legal requirement to record hand loads, but that it can save you a lot of hassle at renewal time. Again, completely voluntary, I also record my total holdings so that I can show that I have not exceeded my FAC limit. Yes, it is only my word as there is no independent check, but the more you can demonstrate that you are a "responsible" individual the easier it is to get variations and renewals.
 
but the more you can demonstrate that you are a "responsible" individual the easier it is to get variations and renewals.

IMHO there's getting to be far to much self imposed emphasis by the FAC holder to demonstrate this being 'responsible' as you put it. If you are being granted an FAC in the first place are you not being accepted as a responsible person by the authorities? Why the need to keep on doing it by maintaining the kind of records that you mention?

Just my 2p, but I haven't yet and don't intend to be recording the minutiae of my ammunition usage.
 
Bryan I think you may be making a rod for your own back and subsequently our backs also. Don't go giving them ideas mate. We have enough controls and hassle as it is. Leave the onus with them to disprove how much you use your rifles.
The other thing is that some of us would soon be filling our certificates and asking for additional ammo pages if we listed every round we reloaded and entered it on the certificates.
 
Guys, I am not trying to be a smarty pants, I am talking from experience! Last time I renewed my FAC, I was questioned on my need for a rifle as I had not purchased any ammunition for 5 years! When I said that I hand-loaded, the Firearms Enquiry Officer said that I should record any reloading. This point was reinforced when I received my renewed FAC; here is an extract from the covering letter:

"As you will be aware legislation requires a certificate holder to prove a "good reason" for each firearm held or required, usually shown by use of ammunition. I am aware you home-load your own ammunition and the Fire Arms Enquiry Officer advised you how to record the ammunition on you certificate. I wish to reiterate his advice and ask that this be done in the future so your use, and therefore evidence of your "good reason" can be ascertained."

If this is what my Firearms Dept wants, it is what I will do - whether or not it is in the Home Office guidance. Two minutes of extra time every time I reload is time well spent if it saves me hassle in the future! I do not record reloads on my FAC but on a separate sheet that gives the same information. When I have submitted this sheet with my FAC for variations (I sign the sheet at each entry), I have had no problems. As I normally reload 100+ rounds at a time, I give my total rounds held as this reflects that I am using rounds, and also shows that I am not exceeding my authorised limit.

Most of us only come into contact with our Firearms Department when we need to renew or want a variation, so for most of the time we are unaware of developing trends in licencing requirements. Please don't shoot the messenger! :oops:
 
Bryan, keep your head up mate - no shots aimed in your direction! :D

The insistence of Cumbria (?) in asking you to record your handloads just reinforces how stupid some FLDs can be when they try and make this crap up.

Apart from the fact that it's not in the HO Guidance and not even a universal made up ruling amongst all the forces, you have to factor in the possibility that any FAC holder who handloads could easily write up a complete 5 year ammunition loading/usage on the cert or an addendum sheet the day before his renewal came up! And what does it prove anyway if it's not externally verified?

It makes no sense whatsoever. As I said before, if they don't think we are responsible persons, (I almost wrote 'adults' because I sometimes get the feeling we are being treated more and more like children), then why issue the FAC in the first place?
 
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I did not say there was a legal requirement to record hand loads, but that it can save you a lot of hassle at renewal time. Again, completely voluntary, I also record my total holdings so that I can show that I have not exceeded my FAC limit. Yes, it is only my word as there is no independent check, but the more you can demonstrate that you are a "responsible" individual the easier it is to get variations and renewals.

Bryan
welcome to the forum .
i am in the same county as you and have reloaded for over 10 years and never logged any of my reloads on my Fac or else where.
I have never being asked too do so by the police so why do it.
As for filling in your own Fac with reloads well it could win the next booker prize for fiction who would know if it was true or not ? so also point-less
I also do not like my expanding bullets added to my Fac when they do not have to be but that is another story.

Bob
 
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