Dogs for deer

willie_gunn

Well-Known Member
A short story for you.

I was on my way home from stalking last Sunday and had a call from a friend whose client had shot a muntjac doe that was hard hit but had run. They had searched for nearly an hour but hadn't been able to find it, so I stopped off with my lab, Fallow.

Now Fallow is a general purpose dog who I use for picking up and beating, but also take stalking. I've never really trained her for deer other than taking her on Stone's Deer Dog day a few years ago and subsequently trying her on a few simple trails. That said, she's found deer for several clients in the past, including in one memorable instance a muntjac buck that a client had shot at last light and that she found the next morning. Oh, and I always let her work her way onto any deer that I've shot.


We walked to where the muntjac had been standing when shot and I put Fallow onto the trail. Within a minute she had worked her way up to the muntjac which was lying stone dead but well hidden under some thick pine fronds - even walking next to them you wouldn't have seen the muntjac.


There are several points to my story above:


First, any dog is better than no dog
Second, we use training to hone a dog's natural skills - but those natural skills are there nonetheless
Third, you don't have to have a highly trained, dedicated, deer dog to find deer - your plain, Jack-of-all-trades, lab can find deer. Perhaps not always, or under the most testing conditions, but they can find deer.


Fallow is primarily a family pet, the matriarch of the pack and - to be blunt - a cantankerous old bitch! But she loves coming stalking and is steady to deer at 10 metres and less. She will sit beneath a high seat for a couple of hours (with only the occasional whine), and will walk and sit at heel when I'm stalking. Yes, sometimes she will just sit down and sulk for no apparent reason, and her love of retrieving a pheasant will occasionally get the better of her when out stalking, but in the General Ledger of my stalking life she is still hugely in credit. She may be a cantankerous old bitch, but she's my cantankerous old bitch, and I love her for it.


I often read threads in this section of the site and think "why would anyone ask a question about training dogs for deer, when it seems you need some special tracking breed with a whole slew of German qualifications after its name, and have to dedicate yourself to training it all day every day, when all I've got is my old mutt!".

Don't get me wrong, it would be great to have a "proper" deer dog, but I simply cannot justify it. If I was stalking every week, and particularly if I was guiding clients full-time, that would be another matter.

I know the above trail was a simple find - not a 2,000 metre, 20 hour old trail - but in my experience represents the most common type of need the average recreational stalker has for finding a wounded/dead deer, at least here in the soft South.

I also know that comparing what my lab does to what a dedicated deer dog can do is like comparing an egg and spoon race to the Olympic 100m final, but most of us don't aspire to run the Olympic 100m final. I do realise that there's a huge amount of satisfaction to be had from training a dog to be able to follow cold, complex, intermittent trails.


I hugely respect those people who have dedicated deer dogs and the time, energy and dedication to devote to training them, but my life outside stalking prevents me doing that, at least for the present. So in the meantime I will carry on with my grumpy, farty, frustrating - but loveable - do-it-all lab.


So to anyone who might read these threads and perhaps feel intimidated by not having a "proper" deer dog, or who has a dog that is used for general shooting and that you haven't tried on finding deer, my advice would be to just give it a go. You may be very pleasantly surprised, you may not, but at least you will have tried everything in your power to find that deer.


willie_gunn
 
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Probably the best deer dog thread of the year so far, well done to both of you.

A big +1.
This says it all "but in my experience represents the most common type of need the average recreational stalker has for finding a wounded/dead deer"

Well done both.
 
Well said! And very typical (I suspect) of your average stalker in the uk.

If your dog fails to find one in every 100 deer, then statistically 1% of deer dogs need to be scent hounds. Just so long as we're not too proud to call on one when we do fail!


(I bet a BMH would make an arse of itself as a peg dog on a driven day)
 
Well written Dom & as for the "grumpy, farty, frustrating but loveable cantankerous old bitch" well she's a little star. :D :D

Cheers
Chris
 
Well said. So encouraging to read a post like that to which I can relate! :) Hope you continue to enjoy working with the "grumpy old fart"!
 
Great story! Thanks Willie Gunn

Well said! And very typical (I suspect) of your average stalker in the uk.

If your dog fails to find one in every 100 deer, then statistically 1% of deer dogs need to be scent hounds. Just so long as we're not too proud to call on one when we do fail!


(I bet a BMH would make an arse of itself as a peg dog on a driven day)
I think that you meant that you would need a scent hound for 1 out of every 100 tracks ;)
If that was the case, the odds of needing a scent hound would be 63.4%, i.e. the odds of a deer not being found 1 time out of 100 tracks.
Lies, damn lies and statistics ;)
 
Great story! Thanks Willie Gunn


I think that you meant that you would need a scent hound for 1 out of every 100 tracks ;)
If that was the case, the odds of needing a scent hound would be 63.4%, i.e. the odds of a deer not being found 1 time out of 100 tracks.
Lies, damn lies and statistics ;)

Alright carol, that's enough!
;)
 
A short story for you.

I was on my way home from stalking last Sunday and had a call from a friend whose client had shot a muntjac doe that was hard hit but had run. They had searched for nearly an hour but hadn't been able to find it, so I stopped off with my lab, Fallow.

Now Fallow is a general purpose dog who I use for picking up and beating, but also take stalking. I've never really trained her for deer other than taking her on Stone's Deer Dog day a few years ago and subsequently trying her on a few simple trails. That said, she's found deer for several clients in the past, including in one memorable instance a muntjac buck that a client had shot at last light and that she found the next morning. Oh, and I always let her work her way onto any deer that I've shot.


We walked to where the muntjac had been standing when shot and I put Fallow onto the trail. Within a minute she had worked her way up to the muntjac which was lying stone dead but well hidden under some thick pine fronds - even walking next to them you wouldn't have seen the muntjac.


There are several points to my story above:


First, any dog is better than no dog
Second, we use training to hone a dog's natural skills - but those natural skills are there nonetheless
Third, you don't have to have a highly trained, dedicated, deer dog to find deer - your plain, Jack-of-all-trades, lab can find deer. Perhaps not always, or under the most testing conditions, but they can find deer.


Fallow is primarily a family pet, the matriarch of the pack and - to be blunt - a cantankerous old bitch! But she loves coming stalking and is steady to deer at 10 metres and less. She will sit beneath a high seat for a couple of hours (with only the occasional whine), and will walk and sit at heel when I'm stalking. Yes, sometimes she will just sit down and sulk for no apparent reason, and her love of retrieving a pheasant will occasionally get the better of her when out stalking, but in the General Ledger of my stalking life she is still hugely in credit. She may be a cantankerous old bitch, but she's my cantankerous old bitch, and I love her for it.


I often read threads in this section of the site and think "why would anyone ask a question about training dogs for deer, when it seems you need some special tracking breed with a whole slew of German qualifications after its name, and have to dedicate yourself to training it all day every day, when all I've got is my old mutt!".

Don't get me wrong, it would be great to have a "proper" deer dog, but I simply cannot justify it. If I was stalking every week, and particularly if I was guiding clients full-time, that would be another matter.

I know the above trail was a simple find - not a 2,000 metre, 20 hour old trail - but in my experience represents the most common type of need the average recreational stalker has for finding a wounded/dead deer, at least here in the soft South.

I also know that comparing what my lab does to what a dedicated deer dog can do is like comparing an egg and spoon race to the Olympic 100m final, but most of us don't aspire to run the Olympic 100m final. I do realise that there's a huge amount of satisfaction to be had from training a dog to be able to follow cold, complex, intermittent trails.


I hugely respect those people who have dedicated deer dogs and the time, energy and dedication to devote to training them, but my life outside stalking prevents me doing that, at least for the present. So in the meantime I will carry on with my grumpy, farty, frustrating - but loveable - do-it-all lab.


So to anyone who might read these threads and perhaps feel intimidated by not having a "proper" deer dog, or who has a dog that is used for general shooting and that you haven't tried on finding deer, my advice would be to just give it a go. You may be very pleasantly surprised, you may not, but at least you will have tried everything in your power to find that deer.


willie_gunn


A cracking well constructed post.

Nutty
 
Hey Dom
good post but I do feel you hav missed out a few vital bits
Willow as we know is a dog bred with the hunting instinct in mind and has been trained/used to find wounded game
the transference to deer was an easy one to willow as prey drive is already installed in her genetics
i do how ever do believe any dog is better than no dog is not the right direction
I personally hav had to track wounded deer after asking owners of dogs they use for deer to put them on the lead
if we had followed their dogs we would never of found the wounded deer
i will not detract from the post , the importance of using a dog from the right lines that has a prey drive to find a live or even wounded beast/animal
by choosing the right line of dog has it's benefits as you hav just pointed out
choosing the right line and training to a good standard I think you also know the benefits
my own dogs are spaniels and labs
all are capable of finding deer some are capable of finding deer in situ's that most would call lost
it some times is not the breed but the training that matters
so all power to you
i am sure the next lab you hav will be trained to the same standard if not greater but with a higher grade of training
we all need to start some where
 
gr8 post matey. seeing any dog work is a sport all on its own, but doing it on command!!

its worth putting up with the odd fart:D
 
an excellent post Willie.
Results are more important than breed types for most of us. Ive had a few labs, and rate them highly as an all rounder.
sinbad
 
Nice write willy,
Looking to get my fourth lab for deer, allow have been tempted to get something els,
best tracker I have seen is a friends lab from Danmark so sicking with what I know.
 
Hi there just a quick question on fallow ( the lab bitch ).
Has she come on a wounded beast that's still living before? If so what was her actions?

great post btw
All the best

nick
 
Brilliant original post and I very much agree with it.
Yes a dedicated deer dog is an asset but any dog that can find you the deer is a bonus.

I have had several deer found by my labs when all human efforts have failed. My Patterdale cross terrier was pretty good too but his report definitely read "easily distracted" . He did put enough in the larder to be classed as a success.
My best dog was without doubt my German Shepherd who took a line and stuck to it almost 100% sucessfully in very dense woodland, on fallow when we were required to use a .22-250 in Eire due to the security restrictions in place at the time.
THE best deer dog I have experienced was a collie cross foxhound (possibly others in there too) who tracked dead deer in dense forestry, bayed them and if they were not dead when he got there, they were when we got there. Cantankerous (sp?) does not even start to describe that sod and he was prone to going feral for periods if he saw fit, however all the deer he produced would fill a big larder.
I am pleased to say I have lost very, very few deer over 30 years of stalking thanks to useful but not specifically trained dogs but do intend to train a dedicated tracking dog. All credit to those who make the effort but it isn't the complete answer.
 
I have a Lab that is used for everything she is good in water and on birds and ground game, but her favourite is Fallow, she is a dog that doesn't bark but when she finds an animal she will wait with the beast until you get there so it is important to keep her close, what she has excelled at this season is wounded animals having pulled down and held 3 Fallow shot by clients, but pays no attention to unwounded animals.
My main initial concern was injury to her but having seen her in action it is amazing how a friendly family pet and gentle retriever reverts to what I can only describe as a wolf grabbing the back leg and pulling down animals and then going for the neck or face and shaking the animal like a rag yet she isn't as violent with Roe, I put this down to her being kicked by a wounded beast previously and her remembering this.
I have seen all types of Deer dogs in action both in the UK and abroard in Germany, Scandinavia and Poland and was once tempted to get either a HPR or BMH but for an all round easily trained and biddible dog for Deer use I will stick to my Labs though if Boar where on the menu then a bigger more powerful animal such as a GWP would be my choice, I will repeat my choice and not recommendation before someone takes offence.

Regards Terry
 
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