Screw cutting and proof house AND BEING CONNED

Tayfix

Well-Known Member
Looking for some advice on what to do, I just bought a Sako 85 from DONALDSONS in fenny stratford MK and he charged me for screw cutting. I asked him about this saying i thought all 2009 onwards came screw cut. No he said but i can get that done for a further £50. I asked if this would void my warranty and he said no one has ever had t claim. Well when the rifle was ready to collect i saw that there was a thread cap in the box and asked if this was from the factory, No Colin said i bought this from jacksons. Not knowing what proofing was at the time of sale off i pipped. I have since found out that there should be a further proof stamp if GMK or any body else has screw cut it, There is only one stamp from the factory, The guy that pointed out that it was a factory screw cut was Mike from Brock & Norris. I have since phoned Colin from the shop and said he will look into it to see if it? This guy has lifted my leg for extra £50 i would rather he asked for for money than con me as i openly told him i was new to the sport. He also tried to con me over so call quite opening butler greeks, I saw this and played along as this i found funny. I have had no response for a week now and not sure what to do next? Your advice would helpful.
Greg.
 
the proof house will have a record of who proofed the rifle,and what was proofed.

If the screw cut has been to proof then there should be a stamp under the screw cut.

ATB
Cam
 
This is the thread on a factory cut gun.

DSC00068.jpg


Write to the shop and ask them to confirm when/where the thread was cut plus when did they get it proofed.If they charging you for something they didn't do then they are in a spot of bother!

regards
 
If you are 100% right in thinking you have been conned and Donaldsons did not screw cut the rifle themselves then get in touch with GMK who are the main agent for Sako in the UK. If this is true it needs nailing right now.

GMK LTD
CONCORDE WAY
SEGENSWORTH NORTH
FAREHAM
HANTS PO15 5RL
GREAT BRITAIN
Tel: 44-1489-579 999
Fax: 44-1489-579 937

If you get no joy from GMK (and I think you will as they will not want idiot sub-agents destroying brand credibility and customer loyalty) you should contact Sako in Finland and explain to them what is going on under their banner in the UK.

IF this turns out to be true then the power of numbers on this forum, other forums and the shooting press will very quickly turn into a boycott of the shop in question.

You should also ask if anyone else has bought Sako from Donaldsons of Milton Keynes and if they have had the same treatment.

I would suggest that this is also a matter for your local Trading Standards or whatever they are called now.
 
Greg

bang (excuse pun) out of order if the shop has done this, i would rather get charged the extra money than be conned . the thing is if the shop has done what you said you will never talk good about the shop and tell everyone you meet about what has happened, it will cost the shop a lot lot more in the long run .

have you blooded the rifle yet

also i will post photos of the paint job when i get a min

...........neil
 
Greg.
If you ring GMK with the serial number they should be able to tell you imediatly, because not all Sakos are threded,it depends on the model and calibre,if you look on the Sako web site it will give you all the info you need.
Chris
 
Screwcut

Gents

I just purchased one of the last Finlite 75's in 25/06 new from them as that seem to have purchased a job lot from GMK that they are advertising in Gunmart at £1100, they also got it screwcut & charged me £50, which to be honest I was happy with, it has not been proofed & there was no screwcap with the rifle.

I am happy with the rifle & shot 3 fallow with on its first trip into the woods!

Regs Lee
 
lwcdart
Screwcut
Gents

I just purchased one of the last Finlite 75's in 25/06 new from them as that seem to have purchased a job lot from GMK that they are advertising in Gunmart at £1100, they also got it screwcut & charged me £50, which to be honest I was happy with, it has not been proofed & there was no screwcap with the rifle.

I am happy with the rifle & shot 3 fallow with on its first trip into the woods!

Regs Lee

Hi lee, glad your still knocking the fallow over:D

Maybe wrong here but am i right in thinking that the rifle(thread) MUST be stamped/proofed before you sell or pass on the rifle and it is your responsibility and so at some point you will be paying again:eek: although not many people sell on their 75:D
 
Thanks guys, I have let it roll for a while thinking that he would come back to me and say very sorry my mistake here is your £50 back. His son and him alll seemend nice to deal with other than the leg lifting exercise. I was also introduced to the shop through a friend who has over the years bought the shop plenty of custom. Its a shame that this has happend and i will try one more time before going further. The rifle has yet to have its first kill, my friend who will be taking me on my first deer kill his mum is very ill. So i will have to wait a bit longer, Unless any of you guys want to take me out?
I have fired it now forty or so times but only on land where i have permission to shoot but there is no deer. It shoots140 grain loads at 0.360 groups at 100 yards with Brock & Norris loads. So itchig to get out and do the real deal.
I will let you all know what happens over the next few days with the shop saga.
Greg.
 
Maybe wrong here but am i right in thinking that the rifle(thread) MUST be stamped/proofed before you sell or pass on the rifle and it is your responsibility and so at some point you will be paying again:eek: although not many people sell on their 75:D
[/INDENT]
Yes you are wrong.;)

You only need to reproof if you alter the structural integrity of the firearm, threading a barrel does not do this; I believe it was Jackson rifles that took the case to court.

This does not stop gunshops/proof houses telling you it must be proofed, this will be to cover their arses or an opportunity to make another few quid on the deal. Same with moderators, no legal requirement to have them proofed.

ATB

Tahr
 
Guys I may be wrong here but it seems to me that there is a concenus of opinion that if you have the end of your barrel threaded for a moderator then you have to have the barrel re-proofed owing to the work that has been carried out,this is not the case unless and I quote the barrel has been " unduly reduced in Substance or Strength so as that the Mark thereon does not duly represent the Proof which if then duly proved it would bear, every such Barrel shall for the Purposes of this Act be deemed an unproved Barrel.” To put it shortly, if a small arm which has previously ‘passed’ a proof test and had the appropriate marks applied is subsequently altered in such a way as to unduly reduce its substance or strength, then it is deemed to be unproved. In accordance with Sections 108 & 109 it would then be a criminal offence to ‘sell, exchange etc.’ that small arm. It is obvious that the key word is ‘unduly’ ".
This quote is taken from the findings of opinion of Nicholas Doherty QC who was asked by Jackson Rifles who import REFLEX moderators for his opinion on the subject a few years ago. I had such a query a few years ago in an enquiry I was working on and it was confirmed to me that if a barrel is threaded for a moderator and the barrel was already in proof then the barrel does not have to re-proofed simply because of the work carried out . I am aware that there are dealers who when the work is done send the rifle away to the proof house for reproofing but as far as I am concerned this an unecessary expense for the owner.It may well be that those dealers are unaware this is not required or have been misdirected but as far as my department are concerned unless the work alters the ballistic qualities of the barrel you don't need to re-proof it. As it was put to me by a ballistics expert the only type of moderator which he thought would necessitate re-proofing is one which is designed to cover most of the barrel length and is held in place at a few points along its length by screws which go through one side of the moderator into the barrel ( I hasten to add I have never seen such a thing but he assured me they do exist ) , he explained that as the screws were inserted into the barrel it was possible that because of the depth into the barrel they went then they could alter the strength of the barrel.
This link will take you to the full statement of opinion by Nicholas Doherty.....http://jacksonrifles.com/zz-silencers/files/proof-counsels-opinion.doc
 
Thar;79645This does not stop gunshops/proof houses telling you it must be proofed said:

Some RFD's Liability insurance requires them to have the rifles re-proofed after they have screw cut them.
 
Thar ,

many thanks , i shall pass on the info to my friend who is a firearms liason officer so he can look into it as it was he who told me only a few weeks ago before my renewal, but i did know about the mod part.
Thanks again

Regards Cervushunter.
 
Hi Cervushunter.

No problem, as you see 1873gus has given you all the links you need, remember the FLO job is to upheld the law not make it, some seem to get confused,:D although mine seems like a good one.

Rarms.

That what I ment by “covering their arse”.;)

ATB

Tahr
 
Yes you are wrong.;)

You only need to reproof if you alter the structural integrity of the firearm, threading a barrel does not do this; I believe it was Jackson rifles that took the case to court.

This does not stop gunshops/proof houses telling you it must be proofed, this will be to cover their arses or an opportunity to make another few quid on the deal. Same with moderators, no legal requirement to have them proofed.

ATB

Tahr

Tahr,

Not sure about the Jackson rifles bit but I know that the Met Police along with the Proof Hourse tried to do Joe Beatham of Gunshop East Barnet over this and lost a drawn out expensive case. Yet despite losing the Proof House still try to insit ont his re-proofing after all it's money in the bank for them.
 
You poor bas&@ds! No such drivel here in the States. I'm curious: would a freshly cut set of threads for a moderator be reblued? Or left in the white? Obviously a set of factory threads would match the bluing of the rest of the firearm.~Muir
 
Well guys i rang GMK today and they confirmend that the rifle was factory cut when they sent it to Donaldsons, So with that i rang the shop and spoke to Colin. He answard the phone in a very happy manor like he always has when i have spoken to him and his son, Like i said earlier i found them very kind and helpfull, I just wish that he had asked for the extra £50 pound at the begining. The first thing he said to me after a week passing,This give him plenty of Opportunity to ring me before hand, He said i need to send you a cheque, Why wait a week to do this? Should i feel guilty in putting this post up? Well i do.
Greg.
 
Looking for some advice on what to do, I just bought a Sako 85 from DONALDSONS in fenny stratford MK and he charged me for screw cutting. I asked him about this saying i thought all 2009 onwards came screw cut. No he said but i can get that done for a further £50. I asked if this would void my warranty and he said no one has ever had t claim. Well when the rifle was ready to collect i saw that there was a thread cap in the box and asked if this was from the factory, No Colin said i bought this from jacksons. Not knowing what proofing was at the time of sale off i pipped. I have since found out that there should be a further proof stamp if GMK or any body else has screw cut it, There is only one stamp from the factory, The guy that pointed out that it was a factory screw cut was Mike from Brock & Norris. I have since phoned Colin from the shop and said he will look into it to see if it? This guy has lifted my leg for extra £50 i would rather he asked for for money than con me as i openly told him i was new to the sport. He also tried to con me over so call quite opening butler greeks, I saw this and played along as this i found funny. I have had no response for a week now and not sure what to do next? Your advice would helpful.
Greg.

Tayfix,

What the hell are you doing using Donaldsons, seriously mate you should have asked about local suppliers before buying (i suppose you wasn't to know). Colin and his son are absolute shite-bags. two mates have had their legs lifted over faulty scopes (which they both have had to send back to the respective manu. to get rectified at their cost). Another mate of mine took his guns in there as he was moving abroad (one was a Mook, and the other a crap sbs and a rifle - CZ .222 with decent scope and mod) he offered him £500 for the lot, my mate told him where to go and went elsewhere and got £1600. They talk to you like crap if you dont go in with a wedge of cash and look down their noses at you if you try to by a cheap gun for the lad to knock-about with (my personal experience).
I had one result with them which l'll tell you about over PM if you would like to know, other than that Colin's old man was a diamond (Brackley Gunsmiths) or was part of it, an absolute gent and got my father into a lot of shooting that he probably would never of thought about.

I have heard good reports about them though - can't finish without saying - but they are nowhere near as many in number as bad.

Dont expect a call back from them anytime soon

If you are after shooting kit in this area use Stockcraft at Stoney Stratford or Reeve's mate -

Tom
 
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