Knives from old files, first go at forging

digger9523

Well-Known Member
Bit off topic, but had a couple of sweaty hours with a blacksmith this evening smacking some hot steel around! Traded a Roe carcass for some lessons. Haven't been able to do any knife work since December! My "Workshop" is currently a hole in the end of the garage!

Started out with a couple of rusty old files and came up with these:

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They don't look like much at the moment, but you'll see what I'm aiming for when i get them on the grinder.

I'll update the thread as work progress's.

Any and all abuse is welcomed as usual!:D
 
Nice one mate. Got any ideas for handle materials? By the way, got your message about the stockmans belt, much appreciated. Glyn.
 
Nice one mate. Got any ideas for handle materials? By the way, got your message about the stockmans belt, much appreciated. Glyn.

Thanks mate,

Not really thought about handles yet, the stick tang one at the bottom will be done as a typical Scandinavian stacked material handle, so antler and wood with p'raps some brass spacers??

The top one, full tang, i might put some dark timber on, Ebony maybe, with brass plate liners.

They're both about 11 inches long by the way folks, not exactly sure what I'll do with them when they're finished, they may just end up being a couple of workshop knock abouts!
 
Thats the one, a couple of the lads had those when I worked in the NWT. I picked up a very nice knife the other day, an old Puma, I'll show you and tell you the story when I see you. Glyn.
 
Thats the one, a couple of the lads had those when I worked in the NWT. I picked up a very nice knife the other day, an old Puma, I'll show you and tell you the story when I see you. Glyn.

Nice one, looking forward to it already.

I may grind the full tang with the Canadian theme in mind now:thumb:
 
Don't know much about it really, but surely a file is made from high carbon steel and would make a very hard but brittle knife?:confused:
I'm always prepared to be educated though and look forward to the next stage with much interest.
I absolutely love the thought of maybe going to a car boot sale and buying an old file for 50p and then transforming it into a completely unique work of art.
Please describe the next stages with photos etc..
Very interesting thread!:thumb:
MS
 
Don't know much about it really, but surely a file is made from high carbon steel and would make a very hard but brittle knife?:confused:
I'm always prepared to be educated though and look forward to the next stage with much interest.
I absolutely love the thought of maybe going to a car boot sale and buying an old file for 50p and then transforming it into a completely unique work of art.
Please describe the next stages with photos etc..
Very interesting thread!:thumb:
MS

You're right mate,

To start with they are too hard and brittle. To make them useable you have to soften or Anneal them, that takes away the hardness. Then you do all the work you need to do, forging, grinding or filing, and then you re do the heat treating. Firstly it's heated and quenched in oil to harden. After that it is tempered by re heating gently to take some of the hardness back out from the oil quench.

What you're left with is (hopefully) a blade that will take and hold a terrifying edge. Here's one a mate of mine did:

DSC07180.jpg



This one wasn't forged into a knife shape like my two. It was softened, shaped on a grinder and then hardened again. There's a massive amount of folk out there making file knives and they have been for years. So if anybody has any shagged out old files, someone will have a use for them;)
 
The first knife I made was from an old file. As you say Monkey files are hard and brittle, like digger says the process used will alter the state of the steel. When I did mine I got a crappy old file, heating it in a fire in the garden, next day it was alot easier to work with so ground off the teeth and then made a knife from it. The clever bit is to then get it back to the correct hardness, to soft and its your normal heap of junk knife that wont hold an edge or its so hard you cant sharpen it. My next knife I make with a file will be from a ******* file, the teeth will be left on the knife for show and the etched word ******* too.

Just edited....as the word missing is ....bast...........ard..............................a trade name and a type of file

As digger says....a terrifying edge....................the one I made I demonstrated to a guy at work, I got a pallet and proceeded to cut it up axe fashion into 6 inch pieces....mate said that will be blunt then..................so I shaved my face and the hairs off both forearms .......kinell was his response :D:D:D
 
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You're right mate,

To start with they are too hard and brittle. To make them useable you have to soften or Anneal them, that takes away the hardness. Then you do all the work you need to do, forging, grinding or filing, and then you re do the heat treating. Firstly it's heated and quenched in oil to harden. After that it is tempered by re heating gently to take some of the hardness back out from the oil quench.

What you're left with is (hopefully) a blade that will take and hold a terrifying edge. Here's one a mate of mine did:

DSC07180.jpg



This one wasn't forged into a knife shape like my two. It was softened, shaped on a grinder and then hardened again. There's a massive amount of folk out there making file knives and they have been for years. So if anybody has any shagged out old files, someone will have a use for them;)

Digger how old are the files mate ? Please forgive me if you already know this but the old files have a high carbon content and hold a really good edge once heat treated and tempered, Newer ones are only case hardened so will struggle to heat treat and hold an edge. If you can get hold of old farriers rasps these work really well, and have a bit more meat on them.
 
Don't know much about it really, but surely a file is made from high carbon steel and would make a very hard but brittle knife?:confused:
I'm always prepared to be educated though and look forward to the next stage with much interest.
I absolutely love the thought of maybe going to a car boot sale and buying an old file for 50p and then transforming it into a completely unique work of art.
Please describe the next stages with photos etc..
Very interesting thread!:thumb:
MS

MS the older files are mega hard but brittle, if you heat them to cherry red, a good indicator is when they become non magnetic through heating, theyre at the right stage, you then need to let it cool down naturally, this is now annealed and workable. Once the file/new blade is where you want it to be it needs to be re-heated to where you was before - Non magnetic then quench in warm oil. This will now be mega hard and brittle, if you turn the wifes oven upto about 200 and place the knife in for two hours it will temper the steel leaving it hard but non brittle. thats how i was shown, but pro knife makers may do things diferently. Hope this helps.
 
MS the older files are mega hard but brittle, if you heat them to cherry red, a good indicator is when they become non magnetic through heating, theyre at the right stage, you then need to let it cool down naturally, this is now annealed and workable. Once the file/new blade is where you want it to be it needs to be re-heated to where you was before - Non magnetic then quench in warm oil. This will now be mega hard and brittle, if you turn the wifes oven upto about 200 and place the knife in for two hours it will temper the steel leaving it hard but non brittle. thats how i was shown, but pro knife makers may do things diferently. Hope this helps.


Thanks for that mate,

The two files were both ancient. I got them from a farm auction years ago, been sat in a workshop there since before i was born! Got a nice barsteward file that i bought from a boot fair stand up at Holkham last year when i was up with Glyn, saving that one for a project when I've done a few more.
 
Bit of progress at work today, got a bevel of sorts on both blades:

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They start to look more like knives from now on.
 
I shall look forward to giving them the test mate. Up and own my arm and across the thumb a few times ..!! You know how much I love knives:p

ATB steve
 
The best oil for tempering steel was whale oil, I remember in the 70's the caulkers all used whale oil to harden the chisels they used to back gouge welds, the would heat the chisel to near blood red and plunge it into a whale oil, loads of thick grey smoke and it stank, but those chisels held and edge to cut steel, just think how it would hold an edge on a knife.

Nice to see someone working with a forge and making stuff instead of buying off the shelf. Another piece of steel to make knives is a bit of a steel cutting band saw blade devel to work with but it does hold an edge.

Bod
 
The best oil for tempering steel was whale oil, I remember in the 70's the caulkers all used whale oil to harden the chisels they used to back gouge welds, the would heat the chisel to near blood red and plunge it into a whale oil, loads of thick grey smoke and it stank, but those chisels held and edge to cut steel, just think how it would hold an edge on a knife.

Nice to see someone working with a forge and making stuff instead of buying off the shelf. Another piece of steel to make knives is a bit of a steel cutting band saw blade devel to work with but it does hold an edge.

Bod

Interesting to hear you say that mate. I read once that the Vikings used to quench their swords into whale blubber. They basically just stabbed the hot steel into the bodies of caught or beached whales. They also used to do it with slaves mind....:tiphat:
 
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