.308 Variation advice please

Crosshair243

Well-Known Member
Hello guys,
Ok so to set the scene, I'm a full time gamekeeper and have been my whole working life, I've had an open FAC for fifteen years and a deer caliber (.243) slot for 10years. I'm required to shoot deer as part if my job and also do so recreationally. I've got game meat hygiene certificates and a DSC equivalent qualification (Deer management unit of level 3 countryside management diploma year one of which was based on dsc level 1).
I probably shoot in the region of 50-80 deer a year, of which 20 will be Fallow.
We're going up to shoot some Red this coming season and I've also decided to put NV on my .243 so I've applied for a .308 variation and plan to use it as my main deer rifle.
I assumed this would just be a paper exercise.
Just had a call fromTVP saying he wants to come out and have a chat about this as 'you know, .308 is a bigger caliber and all that'.

Im a bit baffled by this as he really didn't sound like he knew what he was on about on the phone so..
I want to be able to rebut anything he might use to block my variation so can you guys give me all the facts I need to keep him at bay ;)

cheers in advance,

Andrew
 
just explain its part of your job. and that if he puts it on closed ticket it isn't going to work. tell him you understand its a bigger calibre. but its no different to safe shooting with a 243 which you have had for x amount of years on open ticket.

if you have shooting insurance i would also get onto them if the firearms officers advice isn't what you want to hear on your visit. i am getting a bit ****ed off with the constant rules some of these firearms officers are trying to come out with.

​at the end of the day you have had your ticket a long time on open ticket its all part of your job and any silly rules are not going to help you in your line of work
 
I was told by a very experienced deer manager that he would not want someone to shoot one of his big fallow bucks or red stags with a .243 as he would have to get after them if shot placement was not right. He told me to get a ..308 or 30.06.

Also see paragraph 13.29 of Firearms Law - Guidance for the Police.

13.29
Suitable calibres for shooting deer range

from .243 to .45-70. For the larger species of

deer (Red, Sika and Fallow) .243 calibre is

legal, but .270 and larger calibres are generally

more suitable allowing a 130-150 grain bullet

weight, a muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per

second and a muzzle energy of 1,750 foot

pounds.
For the smaller deer species (Roe,

Muntjac and Chinese Water Deer) .243

calibres are optimal. See paragraph 13.32 for

information about legislative requirements for

the shooting of deer in Scotland, which are

based on the performance of the ammunition

not the calibre of the rifle.

 
I don't know what he was implying Jay22, just seems odd that he needs to visit at all?
Surely I've satisfied all the criteria in bucketfuls for having a .308 slot?
 
Surely I've satisfied all the criteria in bucketfuls for having a .308 slot?

you have indeed and really if you get any problems then it should be easy to go over his head, the scottish stalking is perfect reason as are the fallow. If you need to add anything just say you have more fallow than ever and you are finding you get more runners than you would like with the .243 it sounds like you have a numpty on the way so really its up to you to educate them as much as anything.
 
"Just had a call fromTVP saying he wants to come out and have a chat about this as 'you know, .308 is a bigger caliber and all that'."

What a load of cobblers, it's a deer calibre rifle just the same as the .243win. It's no more dangerous and no safer. Where do they get such daft ideas from.
 
TVP had a few `good` FEOs retire in the last few years, and those now in the breach are pretty average to be honest.... I was witness to one visit, where the FEO was more interested in talking about windsurfing, - "as he knew very little about fieldsports"......

That same FEO refused to allow the wording 7.62 on a .308 variation, to allow for ammo purchases, as it was a bigger calibre.....:oops:
 
Andrew
As the other posters have said you have good reason for the said calibre for shooting of the fallow also request your ticket remain open so you are clear to use it in scotland for reds and sika.
The only other thing i would clarify is what calibre your ground is cleared for.
ATB Lee
 
Andrew
As the other posters have said you have good reason for the said calibre for shooting of the fallow also request your ticket remain open so you are clear to use it in scotland for reds and sika.
The only other thing i would clarify is what calibre your ground is cleared for.
ATB Lee

Lee I would rather see that the person be cleared rather than for any specific arbitrary calibre.
 
Lee I would rather see that the person be cleared rather than for any specific arbitrary calibre.
8X57
I totally agree but our lincening authories dont,even if you are on an open cert you have to have ground cleared for max calibre as part of your good reason to have the rifle so thats why asked if his ground was cleared for 308, it will help him on renewel
atb Lee
 
Not sure if there's any other .308's on our ground but there is at least one .270
I might be worrying about nothing!
 
Andrew
I might be confusing things a little as i said i cannot see any reason why you wont get your .308 you have good reason, you want it for shooting the fallow.
But your ground would have been checked at some point and if it has only been cleared for or up to .270 that could be the problem.
Conditions on your fac govern the usage of the rifle has nothing to do with your good reason to pocess, like i said you can have an open ticket but at renewel you would need at least one piece of ground cleared for your max calibre.
atb Lee
 
Andrew
I might be confusing things a little as i said i cannot see any reason why you wont get your .308 you have good reason, you want it for shooting the fallow.
But your ground would have been checked at some point and if it has only been cleared for or up to .270 that could be the problem.
Conditions on your fac govern the usage of the rifle has nothing to do with your good reason to pocess, like i said you can have an open ticket but at renewel you would need at least one piece of ground cleared for your max calibre.
atb Lee

This is not quite true,
like originally had my fac granted for deer on the basis of paid stalks only, ie no ground of my own. I was granted a .243 and .308 as well as .22lr for rabbits etc. My fac is now open with the rifles as stated above on it. Therefore I can shoot them wherever I deem suitable without land of my own passed for any calibre.

It just so happens that since grant of my fac I have found land to shoot on but the feo won't actually be aware off this act until my renewal.

hope this helps,
​mike
 
Slight deviation from the original subject but just to demonstrate the ridiculousness of any supposed restrictions on clearance of land by calibre.

A .270 winchester round will typically develop 2706 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle, where as a .308 winchester round will typically develop 2648 ft/lb with the same weight bullet (150 grn). So why would would it be logical to restrict the calibre that may be used on a certain piece of ground to up to .270 calibre and no greater?

If you start looking deeper into it you will also be able to find other examples where rifles with lesser calibres actually generate greater muzzle energies than those of larger calibre.
 
Andrew
But your ground would have been checked at some point and if it has only been cleared for or up to .270 that could be the problem.
Conditions on your fac govern the usage of the rifle has nothing to do with your good reason to pocess, like i said you can have an open ticket but at renewel you would need at least one piece of ground cleared for your max calibre.
atb Lee
have to disagree with both the statements here
open ticket = no need for 'ground to be cleared' thats what open means, its all your responsibility / judgement to ensure safety
 
but if he doesn't come out to see you he wont hit his "client visit" quota and how is he going to justify his existence to his boss?

I like to use lots of phrases around safety and animal welfare.

"I would like a 300WM please"
"Why"
"well I feel the opportunity to shoot heavier bullets at similar speeds that my current 270 does will allow me to kill larger stags in a more humane manner....oh...and because I fecking want one! Thats why"
 
have to disagree with both the statements here
open ticket = no need for 'ground to be cleared' thats what open means, its all your responsibility / judgement to ensure safety

That is indeed what it means, however, on application/renewal if you nominate a parcel of land as opposed to paid stalks the land you put forward must be "cleared" for your chosen caliber, irrespective of having an open certificate or not.
 
Back
Top