Full Case !

just

Well-Known Member
Just been experimenting with the Hornet case ! and managed to get 14 grain of lilgun in there, obviously it would be a compressed load :eek: ! Would it be safe for this amount of load as i have read elsewhere that shooters regularly do this !? Would like to add that my gun is a brand new CZ527 American !:p
 
Let me/us know if you survive :scared:
I use 11 grains of H110 and feel no need to step it up from that.

Neil. :)
 
Just been experimenting with the Hornet case ! and managed to get 14 grain of lilgun in there, obviously it would be a compressed load :eek: ! Would it be safe for this amount of load as i have read elsewhere that shooters regularly do this !? Would like to add that my gun is a brand new CZ527 American !:p

What does yor reloading manual say the max load should be?
 
just

Harry makes a very good point. Secondly, what bullet weight are you attempting to load? 40gr? Or? Thirdly, I hope you are keeping records of your brass prep and load development.

Regards JCS
 
Point taken !;) 40 grain sierra B'kings. Been messing about with 12.8 to 13.2 grains with no problems !! Can't see 0.8 more grains doing any damage !? Eyebrows could do with a trim !!:cuckoo: lol. Thank's Lads..
 
Just. You need to be careful with your eyebrows. My Dad took his eyebrows off with petrol looking for unexploded bombs on a Japanese airfield. Rgds JCS
 
Can't see 0.8 more grains doing any damage !?
Nary a comment, and the sky fell when I suggested keeping the SAME charge and bullet weight and just changing bullet type. Sheesh! Nosler Partition question

That's not good "thinking" just. The issue isn't the amount of powder you change, the issue is what is the proportion of the total charge that you change, AND the burning rate of the powder.

First and foremost, L'ilGun is 'fast' powder (made originally for .410 shotguns). Small changes in 'fast' powder CAN cause BIG changes in pressure ESPECIALLY IN SMALL CASES.

Second, 0.8 grains out of 13.2 (your starting weight) is 6%. How many would recommend changing the a 50-grain charge in a .308 Win to 53 grains when the 50 grain charge was considered 'hi'?

Again, I'm baffled at the complacency of THIS thread, and the "consternation" and "concern" about changing bullets (same weight) in a load with no pressure signs.

C'mon gentlemen, how about a little consistency in the paranoia. Or was it just the 'messenger'?

Regards,
Paul
 
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According to QuickLoad V3.6, ("standard" case dimensions) with a seating depth of 2/3rds of a caliber ("out" pretty far) for that 40-grain bullet, a charge of 12.25 grains of L'ilGun is case capacity (100%). That charge would theoretically generate a max chamber pressure of 47,172 PSI. That's more than 9,000 PSI greater than 'recommended', and even 3,661 PSI over the MAX CIP-specified pressure!

Raise the charge to 14 grains and the numbers go to: 114.5% of case capacity, (yeah, I'd call that "compressed"), Max pressure = 80,100 PSI. (You can do the math on how high that is over MAX and recommended max.)

Even assuming QL is being 'conservative' (and there's no reason to make that assumption), the increase from 47kPSI to 80kPSI is 170%. Damn near doubled it.

Let's say your 13.2-grain charge generates only 35kPSI because you have a 'large' chamber. Assuming the 14 grains is going to increase that 35kPSI by the same amount, (and it won't because the speed of ignition is proportional to the pressure, but we'll give the 14 grains the benefit of the doubt), the pressure would be 59.5kPSI. That's STILL more than 16kPSI greater than the MAX.

Yeah... it's a bad idea. A real bad idea.

Regards,
Paul
 
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Hodgdon's give 13 grains as the maximum load for Lil'Gun in the Hornet. I don't see why you would want to risk going above this? :cuckoo:

Alex

22hornet.jpg
 
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Nary a comment, and the sky fell when I suggested keeping the SAME charge and bullet weight and just changing bullet type. Sheesh! Nosler Partition question
C'mon gentlemen, how about a little consistency in the paranoia. Or was it just the 'messenger'?
Regards,
Paul

Paul, as if we would dare pick on you ;) :stir:

Simon

Edit; Come on Just, a little common sense please. Maximum book loads are there for a reason, and as Paul so rightly says, look at your load proportionally. That is a big increase.
 
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hee hee. These threads are great. I just watch and learn, watch and chuckle too....

Devonoak, I too enjoy this forum, laughing and learning from it. One thing I have learnt is to not drink coffee while reading the threads on here. It fair stings when it comes out of your nose :oops:

Simon
 
Nary a comment, and the sky fell when I suggested keeping the SAME charge and bullet weight and just changing bullet type. Sheesh! Nosler Partition question

That's not good "thinking" just. The issue isn't the amount of powder you change, the issue is what is the proportion of the total charge that you change, AND the burning rate of the powder.

First and foremost, L'ilGun is 'fast' powder (made originally for .410 shotguns). Small changes in 'fast' powder CAN cause BIG changes in pressure ESPECIALLY IN SMALL CASES.

Second, 0.8 grains out of 13.2 (your starting weight) is 6%. How many would recommend changing the a 50-grain charge in a .308 Win to 53 grains when the 50 grain charge was considered 'hi'?

Again, I'm baffled at the complacency of THIS thread, and the "consternation" and "concern" about changing bullets (same weight) in a load with no pressure signs.

C'mon gentlemen, how about a little consistency in the paranoia. Or was it just the 'messenger'?

Regards,
Paul

You're quite right Paul. So I'll post here what I said (and is relevant) from the thread you link to."For what it's worth; I'd follow usual practice and work up to a new load."I would also always be very wary of hi-pressure signs when using loads that generate velocities around book max. Never moreso than when using faster burning powders.Hope you feel that's solidarity enough and a consistent response too.
 
Fair enough, Tamus.

There's really not much to "work up to" though when you're incrementing your charges in 6% jumps... over MAX charges!:eek: :eek:

It's all 'good'.
I see our "collective knowledge" as a kind of sheet of fabric. Inconsistencies 'warp' that fabric, and require 'energy' keep it warped. When there is truth and consistency, very little energy required for 'smooth sailing'.

Regards,
Paul
 
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Why do people keep trying to squeeze the very last bit of velocity out of every cartridge to the point of putting themselves in danger.

If the .22 hornet doesn't give you the punch you want, sell it and get a .222 or a .223.

I have just perfected a .243 load.

I am using 37.5 grains of Varget behind an 80grain Berger Varmint. Its velocity is 2995fps which most would consider to be slow. The case is nowhere near full and I get no pressure signs. I do get .5" groups at 100yds and .75" groups at 200yds though, so I won't worry about the velocity as I am pretty certain whatever I aim at is going to be hit.

""Accuracy is Everything""....... Velocity is not important to me as long as the bullet is fast enough to reach my target and kill it when it gets there.

Reloading isn't a speed trial !!!
 
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Fair enough, Tamus.

There's really not much to "work up to" though when you're incrementing your charges in 6% jumps... over MAX charges!:eek: :eek:
Paul

Bad day Paul?

I only ask because... If my thoughts were followed there would be no "6% jumps... over MAX charges"

Maybe we should just leave the guy to work on attaining his Darwin award though... or is that just mean?

So, anways... I reckon my vanilla statement was reasonable enough and all encompassing enough to dodge the apparent derision. :)

BTW, the site's being a bit wierd tonight... I had to use a different IP address to sign on, the usual one just wouldn't connect and it's been like that for hours, is it just me? ~ Tom.
 
To be fair, I would offer in answer to
"Why do people keep trying to squeeze the very last bit of velocity out of every cartridge"
that maximizing the versatility of a given rifle is probably at least a common reason, if not the most common reason. We all know we can 'go down', what we don't know, (without trying), is how high we can go 'up', and reloading manuals, while useful for starting loads, are useless for determining 'top' loads. Knowing the "max" one's rifle can do, AND the min, is part of "getting to know one's rifle", and in part at least defines it's 'capabilities'.

Your suggestion to "sell it and get a .222 or .223" is certainly easier said than done I think.

I certainly agree with "accuracy is everything", but I do not begrudge someone their right to learn what the 'boundaries' of their rifle are, be those "accuracy" boundaries or velocity boundaries.

Regards,
Paul
 
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