Ammo choice for fox

User00003

Well-Known Member
Ok, I know this is a bit 'ballistics' a bit 'equipment' etc. but chucking it in the 'general' section anyway:p

So, for foxing with a .308Win :evil:, what bullet choice should I look at if I want to keep the skins in best condition possible? should I be looking towards target ammo almost, or something VERY slow maybe?
 
Remington Accelerator ammo - now discontinued.

The .308 (or 30.06 or 30-30) cartridge holds a .224, 55gr sub-calibre bullet in a discarding plastic sabot. Velocity in the .308 was 3700fps (4080fps in the 30.06) making 1735 ft/lb (2003 ft/lb). The idea was to allow the 'one gun' deer hunter to enjoy varmint shooting with the same firearm. Reports are that accuracy left something to be desired above 150 yds although maybe Muir can clarify that point.

You can obtain 30/22 calibre sabots from some specialist reloading suppliers in the States, so maybe they could made more accurate?

Here's some related stuff I found for another thread where this was mentioned:

Apparently the US military developed a .223 tungsten carbide bullet in a .308 sabot under the designation Sabot Light Armour Piercing (M948 SLAP) - presumably for use in the SR25 (M16 based) semi-auto 7.62 sniper rifle - I guess it would give you more than just a light slap though!

A bit of research shows the reason why the sub-calibre SLAP round has the edge over a full-calibre 7.62 AP round:

7,62mm M948 SLAP penetrates ~30mm HB400 steel@100m
7,62mm M993 AP penetrates ~17mm HB400 steel@100m

Found this as well:

"Sweden uses a 7,62mm SLAP round (52grn,4,81mm bullet@4400fps)for their PSG-90(Accuracy International)sniper rifles. Though it (the SLAP round) doesn't have the same accuracy potential as a match round, but the advantage is that the time of flight to target, bullet drop and wind drift is much smaller, perhaps half as much as a normal round due to the extremely high velocity. Thus it is more forgiving when it comes to distance and wind calculation/estimation errors as compared to a normal round".

So maybe accuracy at longer distances can be enhanced enough to make the sub-calibre sabot rounds effective after all?
 
Nosler b-tips or hollow points say hello. Most of my out in the wilds foxing is with my .308 and 150 grains does leave a bit of a scratch.
 
Nosler b-tips or hollow points say hello. Most of my out in the wilds foxing is with my .308 and 150 grains does leave a bit of a scratch.

I'm using .224" Hornady 68grain BTHP Match at the moment with an MV of about 3100fps. Very effective on fox at sensible ranges (sub 300m) and pretty decent at 400m+ paper punching too.
 
Errr...........................



:p;)


Nope... .223rem... and before you doubt my MV... It's got a 27 1/2" barrel... so that's why :D

Actually you raise an interesting question with your accelerators. If you want to reload them what do you need on your ticket?

Oh... and if expansion is an issue in your mind.... I design them to expand OK... and do they ever.
 
Well he could couldn't he?:D

Might rattle about a bit in the chamber though! ;)

Actually Tamus has raised some interesting points in a PM regarding the classification and make up of handloaded sabot rounds. Starters for 10:

1) What would they be classified as for Firearms Act purposes - the 'parent' .30 cartridge calibre or the actual sub-calibre bullet size?

2) Could you load the .30 calibre sabot with a .224 target bullet for use on fox - thereby negating the neccessity of getting an FAC varied for .22 expanding missiles?

2a) At possible speeds in excess of 4000fps it would no doubt whizz through and pelt damage would probably be minimal. But would it be humane and would it kill cleanly?

BTW I use a 150gr BT exclusively in my .308, and that works on foxes just fine.
 
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Might rattle about a bit in the chamber though! ;)

Actually Tamus has raised some interesting points in a PM regarding the classification and make up of handloaded sabot rounds. Starters for 10:

1) What would they be classified as for Firearms Act purposes - the 'parent' .30 cartridge calibre or the actual sub-calibre bullet size?

2) Could you load the .30 calibre sabot with a .224 FMJ bullet for use on fox - thereby negating the neccessity of getting an FAC varied for .22 expanding missiles?

2a) At possible speeds in excess of 4000fps it would no doubt whizz through and pelt damage would probably be minimal. But would it be humane and would it kill cleanly?

BTW I use a 150gr BT exclusively in my .308, and that works on foxes just fine.

Ahh!

Do we really need to go to FMJ's to get by on the "non-expanding", off ticket , target bullet roolz...?

I doubt if FMJ could be ever considered humane. So, I didn't actually say FMJ in my PM to you... but the rest of the quagmire is just as clear as you put it. From what you tell me, about life in yon green and pleasant land, I can see an FLD having kittens trying to resolve this one. I guess the preferred answer would be NO... especially once you lob in the bit about no traceable machine marks left on the projectiles... If the consequent grief wasn't likely to be so great it would be fun to run this through the mill.

ps. I use a 150 grain softpoint on Fox too, at about 2800 fps MV from my .30 cal, does the business every time. You should be able to replicate that in a .308win with a proper length barrel, no probs.
 
:oops:

Correct, should have put it as 'target' bullet - edited now. :doh:
As you say, this could have put the wind up a fair few FLOs if they had ever become popular.
 
Are not these sabot-rounds found wanting in accuracy compared to the conventional .22cf UK foxing rig? I've never used them, but I seem to recall reading a review which found them unwilling to group terribly closely.
 
Are not these sabot-rounds found wanting in accuracy compared to the conventional .22cf UK foxing rig? I've never used them, but I seem to recall reading a review which found them unwilling to group terribly closely.

That's the impression I have from reading around the interweb about the Remington factory 'Accelerator' ammuntion, but.............................

.............as the components are available for handloading it might be possible to put together an accurate loading.

Here's a thought. I've just checked my copy of Richard Prior's 'Modern Roe Stalking' from 1985 where the .22/.308 'Remington Accelerator' round gets a mention. He states that 'due to an anomaly in the law' the round is legal for use on any deer in England/Wales as it satisfies the .240/1700ft/lbs ruling! :eek: So I guess the classification for the round rests with the .30 calibre parent case, not the .224 bullet and as the energy figure is just about above the legal limit, it's in!
 
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How would ballistics matching work with these rounds. The bullet wouldnt show any rifling marks
 
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