Simple question is it legal to shoot deer with an ATN X sight 2 during the day? Always believed it was illegal without a night licence, but read a post on super Facebook saying otherwise...sorry if this has been covered countless times before, but I couldn't find it, regards Lee
HD day/ night scopes...
- Thread starter cowsmart
- Start date
That's what I thought but read an e-mail someone had copied to a fb group from BASC saying otherwise....I will try and find it
Email mail back from BASC, with reference to shooting of Deer with Smart HD scopes... for those that wondered the legality in the UK.....
I can confirm, whilst your rifle scope is legal to have and mount on your rifle it may be used for day time shooting of deer and for night shooting. Whilst the scope is legal to mount and use. You would require a night shooting licence that allowed the use of this type of equipment for shooting deer one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise.
Kind regards
Deer Officer
The British Association for Shooting & Conservation
Email mail back from BASC, with reference to shooting of Deer with Smart HD scopes... for those that wondered the legality in the UK.....
I can confirm, whilst your rifle scope is legal to have and mount on your rifle it may be used for day time shooting of deer and for night shooting. Whilst the scope is legal to mount and use. You would require a night shooting licence that allowed the use of this type of equipment for shooting deer one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise.
Kind regards
Deer Officer
The British Association for Shooting & Conservation
Last edited:
Definitely illegal in Scotland - not sure about the rest of the UK.
Cheers
Bruce
Cheers
Bruce
Possibly because it's digital rather than optical?
In Scotland at least, any sort of night vision device is not permitted for shooting deer.
Since the X Sight can be used both day and night, it qualifies as a night vision device and is therefore not permitted.
The law may be different in the rest of the UK and I'd certainly be interested to know if it is.
Cheers
Bruce
8x57
Distinguished Member
Just for the sake of discussion couldn't you argue that the X sight when used in daylight works in a slightly different way with no illumination, so at that time is simply a day sight then?
Have there been any test cases or serious qualified legal opinions expressed on such scopes. :?:
Have there been any test cases or serious qualified legal opinions expressed on such scopes. :?:
I doubt there has been any legal opinion or legal test of the proposition.
My opinion is that because the X Sight (or the Drone Pro, or N870 etc) are specifically designed and sold as having a night vision capability, they would fall under the definition of a night vision device.
I think the important word is "designed"
In the same way that A Max are classed as target ammunition because they are not "designed" to expand in the way specified by the law.
Cheers
Bruce
My opinion is that because the X Sight (or the Drone Pro, or N870 etc) are specifically designed and sold as having a night vision capability, they would fall under the definition of a night vision device.
I think the important word is "designed"
In the same way that A Max are classed as target ammunition because they are not "designed" to expand in the way specified by the law.
Cheers
Bruce
If you phone you normally get and "out of hours" mobile number. Of message on facebook
No reply as yet..guess they are struggling with the answer...for me, if it's because they have NV capability then so does an optic scope with an add on, if it's because it's digital then so is every scope with a phone fixed on to video shot...looking forward to sacs response when I get it
Again, just my opinion, but a night vision capable add-on, when fitted to a standard scope would make the sighting set up become a night vision device and as such be illegal for shooting deer.
The legislation does not specifically mention digital, it simply says
The use of light-intensifying, heat sensitive or other special sighting devices is prohibited under Section 5 of the Deer (Firearms etc) (Scotland) Order 1985.
Cheers
Bruce
The legislation does not specifically mention digital, it simply says
The use of light-intensifying, heat sensitive or other special sighting devices is prohibited under Section 5 of the Deer (Firearms etc) (Scotland) Order 1985.
Cheers
Bruce
Dear Lee,
Apologies for the delay in coming back to you. I had missed your email until
chased by Beth. If you don't hear from us for any reason do please call.
SACS is obsessive about member support and does not like to let emails slip
through the net, even when busy on other matters. This is a very busy time
for all shooting organisations.
You are the fourth person to as this question about 'day/night scopes'. As
technology moves forward legislation will have to keep up, however the Deer
(Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Order 1985 is, in our view, quite clear in regard
to the legality of using light-intensifying sights for killing deer.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1985/1168/pdfs/uksi_19851168_en.pdf
"2. No person shall use in connection with the killing or taking of deer any
firearm, ammunition or sight except as is declared lawful by this order and
in the circumstances provided therefor."
"5.(b) It shall be lawful to use - a sight which is not a
light-intensifying, heat-sensitive or other special sighting device for
night shooting."
2. makes it clear that it is unlawful to use any sight not declared lawful
i.e. at 5.(b).
5.(b) makes it clear to us that killing deer by use of light-intensifying,
heat-sensitive or other special sighting devices for night shooting would be
unlawful.
There seems to be some confusion in regard to the words "for night shooting"
as if the purpose as opposed to capacity of the sight is the defining factor
i.e. unlawful for night shooting, but ok for daytime. It is our
understanding that the capacity of a sighting device to be
light-intensifying is sufficient to preclude it from lawful use - night or
day. It is important to read the motive behind the legislative wording and I
include it here from Hansard:
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1985/jul/10/deer-firearms-etc-scotl
and-order-1985
In particular: "Also, your Lordships will have noticed ordinary sights,
including normal telescopic sights, are authorised under Article 5(b), but
special sighting devices for night shooting are not."
In our view this further reinforces the opinion that it is the
light-intensifying sight itself that is unlawful as opposed to simply the
use of it at night. If its use at night was lawful, there would likely be
further legal wording determining use, which is not the case.
Therefore, we would advise against the use of the light-intensifying ATN
sight for killing deer as in our view that would be unlawful.
As ever, this email should not be considered to be professional legal advice
and is our guidance to you based on experience and our understanding of
current legislation.
If you need anything further call me on the numbers below. We are very busy,
but the phones are manned day and evening.
Hope that helps.
Best wishes,
Alex
Alex Stoddart
Director
Scottish Association for Country Sports
Apologies for the delay in coming back to you. I had missed your email until
chased by Beth. If you don't hear from us for any reason do please call.
SACS is obsessive about member support and does not like to let emails slip
through the net, even when busy on other matters. This is a very busy time
for all shooting organisations.
You are the fourth person to as this question about 'day/night scopes'. As
technology moves forward legislation will have to keep up, however the Deer
(Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Order 1985 is, in our view, quite clear in regard
to the legality of using light-intensifying sights for killing deer.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1985/1168/pdfs/uksi_19851168_en.pdf
"2. No person shall use in connection with the killing or taking of deer any
firearm, ammunition or sight except as is declared lawful by this order and
in the circumstances provided therefor."
"5.(b) It shall be lawful to use - a sight which is not a
light-intensifying, heat-sensitive or other special sighting device for
night shooting."
2. makes it clear that it is unlawful to use any sight not declared lawful
i.e. at 5.(b).
5.(b) makes it clear to us that killing deer by use of light-intensifying,
heat-sensitive or other special sighting devices for night shooting would be
unlawful.
There seems to be some confusion in regard to the words "for night shooting"
as if the purpose as opposed to capacity of the sight is the defining factor
i.e. unlawful for night shooting, but ok for daytime. It is our
understanding that the capacity of a sighting device to be
light-intensifying is sufficient to preclude it from lawful use - night or
day. It is important to read the motive behind the legislative wording and I
include it here from Hansard:
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1985/jul/10/deer-firearms-etc-scotl
and-order-1985
In particular: "Also, your Lordships will have noticed ordinary sights,
including normal telescopic sights, are authorised under Article 5(b), but
special sighting devices for night shooting are not."
In our view this further reinforces the opinion that it is the
light-intensifying sight itself that is unlawful as opposed to simply the
use of it at night. If its use at night was lawful, there would likely be
further legal wording determining use, which is not the case.
Therefore, we would advise against the use of the light-intensifying ATN
sight for killing deer as in our view that would be unlawful.
As ever, this email should not be considered to be professional legal advice
and is our guidance to you based on experience and our understanding of
current legislation.
If you need anything further call me on the numbers below. We are very busy,
but the phones are manned day and evening.
Hope that helps.
Best wishes,
Alex
Alex Stoddart
Director
Scottish Association for Country Sports
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
I am sorry but that is a mis-interpretation of the Act in my humble opinion
The use of Night vision (Heat Sensitive or Light intensifying) equipment is specifically in regard to night shooting.
That's like saying you can't shine a light on a deer whilst shooting it in broad daylight unless you have a night license!
crackers
The use of Night vision (Heat Sensitive or Light intensifying) equipment is specifically in regard to night shooting.
That's like saying you can't shine a light on a deer whilst shooting it in broad daylight unless you have a night license!
crackers
Similar threads
