First deer rifle - which calibre for my ground? (and new or used?)

Our passion is your passion... stalk with us!
Honestly I'd find a nice clean rifle from a quality manufacturer and worry less about calibre, get the barrel and crown properly checked out though. All deer legal calibres have their niche, you will pay less for a more obscure calibre but will pay for it in ammo. I got a lovely Sako 75 in 25 06, I wanted the rifle more than the cal but have learned to love the 25 and now wouldn't be without.

The market is full of S & B 8x56's and they are perfect starting out.
 
I have both .243 and .308. Both do the same job. I think both rifles have pro and cons and at the end of the day it's down to you. You will be happy with both. I would opt for the .308 as it is a great target rifle if you want to test your skill. Happily punches 1000m at Bisley.
As for Scope - Buy best you can afford... it will go on the next rifle
Binoculars-- buy the best you can.. if you can't see the deer you can't shoot it.
New or secondhand.. down to your pocket money allowance from the wife.. Always buy a solid name sako etc.. But make sure it fits you. Like a shotgun.. it will need to feel comfortable so make sure the stock length and comb suit your build.
 
Everyone has their own idea of the perfect calibre, I have tried a lot of them from 222 to 300 H&H, they all killed deer in the right circumstances. My advice buy what you fancy, rifles are a personal thing and you have got to be comfortable with it. When my 270 came to the end of it life shot out, i bought a nice Sauer 6.5x57 shoots really well I am not at one with it when I can find something else I fancy it's going. Luckily I have still got the 30 06 I built.
 
Lets accept that anything over the deer legal limit will "do the job".
None do it better than others.
The operators do that bit.

Buy a deer legal calibre that
a) fits you (try it prone and standing preferably with a scope fitted, hogsback stocks do not lend themselves to Hubble telescopes and prone shooting!)
b) You can shoot effectively - no point getting larger cartridge if you develop a flinch
c) You can feed a reliable source of ammunition - ring or better still visit your local dealers and see what they have. chances are they won't order in wildcat ammo or anything they don't have.

The .243 is recommended by FEOs for first time FAC applicants under the misguided assumption that the minimum is "safer" than a larger calibre rifle
They don't decide what you want
YOU do
Do not be persuaded otherwise
Get your good reason in order. You appear to have a full range of quarry at your fingertips and require a rifle that is capable in ALL conditions
It should include the words "adequate energy for humane kill" in any application for a larger calibre


I like the .30-06
But in truth it is a very inefficient cartridge and does little the .308 can't do at significantly less cost to feed (I am about to do a presentation on this exact comparison. Its also one of the reasons when looking for a large case .30 cal I went 300wm instead of 30-06)


Don't be persuaded that some calibres/cartridges are flatter than others.
They are not.
Unless you can shoot sub 1" groups at 300yds you will never see the benefit of a the trajectory advantage at stalking range in the field when zeroed for maximum point blank range.
The wind will screw your shot before the bullet/cartridge ever does.
Factory Norma Ammo data for .308 and .30-06 is under an inch apart at 300yds

I would be so bold as to say recreational Sporting Rifles don't get "Shot Out"
Seldom do they see the shot strings or shot count to lose accuracy enough to make them unfit for service.
A decent make of barrel will shoot better than most recreational stalkers after several thousand rounds of recreational use.
Range use is a different matter and 20-30 shots inside 10 mins on a regular basis will drop that serviceable shot count considerably, beware the over bore range queen (.22-250, .243 etc)

They do however "Rust Out" on a regular basis!
I have seen Crowns, Threads, Rifling, even chambers and bolt faces rusted away to buggery
Still doesn't mean it won't shoot


Buy second hand. You will get a lot more for your money
A well made rifle from the 1970-80 and early 90s knocks a new cheap 2015 made rifle into a cocked hat!
(Think second hand VW/Audi/BMW vs New Dacia Sendero!)
99% of rifles will shoot better than you do.

Spend your money on the binos and socpe
Don't get binos that make your scope look like a toilet tube
You will spot deer you then cant shoot! (ask me how I know!?)
 
And for a first scope - a fixed 6x42 or 8x56 is a very good option. One less thing to mess around with and you will quickly learn how big a deer should look compared to the reticle and thus how far away it is - or if it looks too small it is too far away. Most zoom's add a lot of cost, without any additional functionality for a deer stalking rifle.

The one place for a zoom scope is on a rifle that will also be used for close range action on bigger or running game - such driven boar, and for this you need a low power zoom - 1.25-4 or a 1.5-6.
 
Bet your sorry you asked now.... I will echo what Edinburgh Rifles said. I personally tend to buy everything secondhand where I can. You have to remember that there are people on here with a wide range of incomes and what is expensive for some is cheap for others.
If your budget is £800 then yes you will pick up a rifle and all the bits that will do the job, whether it be Tikka or CZ or another, if your not in a rush you can see what comes up here in the secondhand ads. If you are going to go to a shop then speak to people who know the shops, there is one or two out there who will sell you a dog. I would happily recommend Ivythorne Sporting or DMC custom cartridges. These are two I use regularly. There are others as well.

like most things fit is really important. If your faffing about trying to get your head in the right position then it another thing that can go wrong. So length of stock to the trigger is really important, you can adjust your head position with foam and gaffer tape. Look at trigger weight. I cannot shoot a heavy trigger. Anything over 2lb and it causes me issues. It is another thing to think about. But basically don't rush and something will come along. Find out what your local shop supplies. The nearest to me show Norma ammo at an awful price per box. I ended up buying 80 from a shop in Warrington because I couldn't find anything close. I was avoiding the 50 mile round trip so picked it up on the way to a business meeting. Lol. I digress.

you might not get a pretty rifle but you will get a functional one. I would also go for a moderator. Reduces kick and noise. And I like being able to hear things.
 
dodgyknees said:
Nope! Definitely not. My grandpa taught me in the early 80s when I was in my teens and he was in his 70s and he'd left the .303 behind 20 years before that. He was a .243 man. But he insisted on starting me, my brothers and sisters and the dozens of the cousins on a BSA Majestic .222 from sometime in prehistory (early 60s I think). Now he's been gone a decade or more and it's up to my generation to start off the newbies, and guess what. I won't be starting them on a 30 cal.

I do however like what you're saying 308tikka about the cadet movement, sadly that's not something we have access to where we live, too far to drive unfortunately. That's how my wife learnt, in the cadets and then the real deal SANDF with accurised R1s in 5.56x45 Nato, before she moved onto R4s (same round) and only after that the Steyr Mannlicher .308s.

Edit... I have been corrected by the wife who tells me that the Steyrs were 7.62x51mm and that I should bloody well know the difference by now....
Click to expand...

Thread drift. R1 is 7.62 x 51 Nato
 
I always find it interesting to read threads that ask what is the best calibre or rifle or scope etc. There’s nothing wrong with asking the question but keep in mind that most people will reply with what they have today. The same happens on just about any forum and it isn’t surprising really. So here’s my view, based on those that I have owned used....

.243 my first deer rifle, gave me good service and at the time it was about the most popular calibre for combined deer and fox so plenty of ammo available for both. My own view was that it felt a bit under whelming and as it was a replacement for my beloved .222 I just wanted something that I felt was more noticeably different.

.270 took advice from a fellow stalker but I couldn’t get on with it. For me it felt too brutal and I found myself flinching every time I pulled the trigger which did not have a positive impact on my accuracy....also a regular supply of ammo was hard to come by.

.308 (what I have today) tried it and immediately felt at home with it. I have a Sako 75 all weather in SS with a T8 Mod (I know not everyone’s favourite) but for high-seat work it’s my go to set-up.

6.5x55se (again what I have today) I wanted something that I could use predominately for woodland stalking or for those long days on the hill and that could handle anything in the UK but would be fun to shoot and easy to carry. I went for a Tikka in lightweight SS and plastic. Again I have a T8 mod for it but more often than not use it without it fitted.

I would be happy to have either but If I had to choose one of them it would be the 6.5x55se. It’s just that bit more forgiving on smaller species and I really enjoy the low recoil and with the mod fitted there is virtually no muzzle flip which allows for watching from pull to impact.

So I think I have found the perfect calibre’s for me but there are so many others out there who am I to say for certain. The biggest factor for me is knowing that so long as I do my part the calibre will despatch cleanly and I will enjoy my sport.
 
If you can buy secondhand from the owner and see the gun shoot, that is the best option.

particularly helpful is knowing what ammo it likes which will save you buying three packs of bullets to try out (£100 or so)
 
308 is cheeper to buy and cheeper to feed so if your RFD will let you have one go 308

Theres an "as new" Savage arms Axis on Guntrader for £210.00 and that sounds good but theres also a Parker Hale For 260 with scope rings. The Scope rings make it the better choice as those things are expensive.

Having spent 260 on your rifel you want about £100 for the Mod leaving you 440 to spend on the scope

Having 1" rings allows you to get unfashnoble (but perfictly functional) 1" tube scopes.

Ge a non iluminated scope to save cash and you should get something decent for 440 S/H

30/06 and 6.5/55s are great but with only a fraction of the number posted for sale than common as muck 308 you will no doubt pay more.
 
Opticswarehouse had a clear out of Weaver Grand Slam 4-10x40 scopes in one inch tube for very cheap, some are slowly coming to market (including one I put on eBay as I got carried away and bought a couple of 'spares' and thought better of it - it made me zero profit but at least I got my cash back!) they were £400-£500 new and can be had for around £150 or so, brand new, handled by enthusiastic would-be entrepreneurs in the middle. A good option if you can find one, leaving you enough cash for a good shooter.

By by the way have you factored in the cost of bins as well? More important than the rest of the items some say. There is a good thread on good value bins on here somewhere, there are many good mid priced ones.
 
Finch said:
Any decent used .308 rifle in good condition and any decent 8X56 f-p scope. Thread closed.
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+1. A .308 that has been owned by a recreational stalker, and looked after, is less likely to be worn out than a rifle in another calibre that might have also been used on ranges.
 
WOW - what a lot of information! Thank you so much for everyone who has taken the time to offer advice, I really appreciate it and it is all v helpful. To be honest, having taken all the comments into account I will probably end up with a .308 - either a used Tikka/ Sako/ Mauser/ A or X Bolt etc if I can find a good one (fortunately I have a v good local RFD who I trust and who offers - and honours - a 1 year warranty on used guns) - or poss a new Howa/ Bergara/ Savage. Thanks again!
 
Night as well chip in!

I have a .243 Sako 75, 6.5 55 Sako 75, Custom wood/blue Mauser .275 (7 57) and custom stainless/synthetic 7mm Rem Mag in deer calibres If I am going to hill for Red/Sika I take the 7mm Re Mag for a bit more oomph and longer range accuracy. Kicking around on the Roe I mainly used the .243 and 6.5 55. The .275 (7 57 )I have used on all the UK deer and Africa on plains game

On balance if I was only shooting UK I would probably stick with 6.5 55. Terrific ballistic coefficient, very accurate, very low recoil and fairly good factory ammo availability and bullet choice. In terms of versatility it has also brought down Red Hartebeest/Impala/Black Wildebeest/Blebok in early Africa trips, so very good on tough non dangerous game. Theres a reason Swedes use them on Moose

If I could only pick one to do most of my UK and non DG overseas shooting the .275 would be my go to round. Again easily available, wide bullet choice, low recoil, and fairly flat shooting that will stop your target without too much meat damage (not using ballistic tips)

End of the day as many said it's a personal choice in which cartridge performance, fad/fashion, the confidence you build with a particular rifle and shooting memories all play a part in building a particular favourite

Definitely echo spend much more on your optics than the rifle when buying off shelf. Most of the well know names will all get the bullet into the right spot if you do your job

BTW drop me a pm if wish re where in Hampshire you are

S
 
Presumably you have seen this

138017-Sako-A7-308

S

SD198 said:
Hi all - I hope to shortly (ish) be buying my first rifle for deer (have previously been using .22LR and FAC air on smaller quarry). In case it is relevant, I will (at least for the foreseeable future) only be shooting from a high seat and only at ranges realistically up to 100m (maybe 150m on the rare occasion). I have shot a .243 and 30-06 and was told I am able to shoot either with sufficient accuracy. I will be shooting mostly fallow and roe (but I guess eventually red or sika may be a possibility).

My simplistic logic tells me that if I am able to shoot sufficiently accurately with, say a 30-06, there is little reason not to go for the larger calibre to be sure of a clean kill. I was recently given that advice by a v experienced stalker. Is that good advice? I gather the .308 is more common as an "all rounder" - would that possibly be more suitable for my needs? I have also read that some FEOs "prefer" you to go for something like a .243 for your first deer rifle (although I'm not entirely sure why that would be) - and also that it is flatter shooting (although is that really going to be an issue at my sort of ranges?)?

Finally, I have also been advised to buy a new rifle rather than a used; is that generally a good idea with these sorts of rifles? As I will not be shooting many deer with it my (ie my wife's!) budget is LOW - as in I was hoping to get away with spending maximum £800 for a rifle, mod and scope; so I believe my new options would probably be limited to something like a Savage Axis - will something like that do what I need it to do or am being silly even considering it??

Any help gratefully received!!
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