Who will you vote for?
- Thread starter BryanDC
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enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
This will be that SAME Switzerland that accepts all of the "Four "Freedoms" of the EU/EEA....of freedom of movement of goods, of capital, of services and of people?
That clearly it does not see such as "shackles" to it, Switzerland, having a successful trading relationship with the EU "just over the border" but as positive benefits worth agreeing to...short of full on EU Membership...which next step Switzerland has always rejected.
The same "Four Freedoms" that Theresa May's "red lines" have rejected? Good enough and works well enough for the Swiss...but apparently Theresa May won't open her eyes to see it or her ears to hear it.
As she doesn't think her deal should include such.
Last edited:
OK, I've been educating myself about this process, and how weird it is.
Here's a copy-paste from some discussion that I have indulged in with family and friends:
"
I confess to being thoroughly confused as to how our EU MEPs get elected, so I've done a little research, and it is even more bizarre then I could imagine.
Since I am in the SE region, there are 12 parties, and 85 candidates.
Who will be sifted through after the vote using the d'Hondt method. The result not being declared until the following Sunday, or later, so complex is the procedure.
en.wikipedia.org
I think that this means that I just vote for one party, then seats are awarded on a proportional basis, in order of the priority of the names put forward by each party. All the main ones have packed the list with the maximum ten candidates allowed here. Realistically, only the first few candidates stand a chance, the others are just padding.
FYI, here are my ten current Euro MPs, and their alliances since they took up their positions:
www.europarl.europa.eu
Of whom I only recognise Farage. The other names are a complete mystery to me, as is what they have been getting up to over past years, other than enjoying the gravy train.
But I can correlate their names with those presented on the list of candidates, and see that they are mostly still putting themselves up for re-election, in the top positions on their party lists.
As to how long we will still have EU parliamentarians in place, that's also a mystery. Days, weeks, months, possibly even five more years ? Small wonder that turnout for these elections is historically so low, barely 30%.
Nevertheless I intend to cast my vote on 23 May, but have no faith that anything meaningful, to me, will come from it, other than hopefully a well-deserved kicking for the Conservative party. Oops, they are now campaigning as the "Conservative and Unionist" party.
For what it's worth, in the North East region you only get three MEPs, and a list of three per party, not ten like me. Here are you're current ones (Hartlepool, Stockton on Tees, County Durham, Tyne & Wear, Northumberland, Redcar & Cleveland, Middlesbrough.)
Two Labour, one presumably independent.
www.europarl.europa.eu
Unlike Hastings, this sort of information seems to be obscure in the North East. You can discover your choices at Who Can I Vote For? You have a choice of seven. I have twelve to choose from.
"
Here's a copy-paste from some discussion that I have indulged in with family and friends:
"
I confess to being thoroughly confused as to how our EU MEPs get elected, so I've done a little research, and it is even more bizarre then I could imagine.
Since I am in the SE region, there are 12 parties, and 85 candidates.
Who will be sifted through after the vote using the d'Hondt method. The result not being declared until the following Sunday, or later, so complex is the procedure.
D'Hondt method - Wikipedia
I think that this means that I just vote for one party, then seats are awarded on a proportional basis, in order of the priority of the names put forward by each party. All the main ones have packed the list with the maximum ten candidates allowed here. Realistically, only the first few candidates stand a chance, the others are just padding.
FYI, here are my ten current Euro MPs, and their alliances since they took up their positions:
Home | Office in London | European Parliament
Homepage of the European Parliament Liaison Office in the UK
Of whom I only recognise Farage. The other names are a complete mystery to me, as is what they have been getting up to over past years, other than enjoying the gravy train.
But I can correlate their names with those presented on the list of candidates, and see that they are mostly still putting themselves up for re-election, in the top positions on their party lists.
As to how long we will still have EU parliamentarians in place, that's also a mystery. Days, weeks, months, possibly even five more years ? Small wonder that turnout for these elections is historically so low, barely 30%.
Nevertheless I intend to cast my vote on 23 May, but have no faith that anything meaningful, to me, will come from it, other than hopefully a well-deserved kicking for the Conservative party. Oops, they are now campaigning as the "Conservative and Unionist" party.
For what it's worth, in the North East region you only get three MEPs, and a list of three per party, not ten like me. Here are you're current ones (Hartlepool, Stockton on Tees, County Durham, Tyne & Wear, Northumberland, Redcar & Cleveland, Middlesbrough.)
Two Labour, one presumably independent.
Home | Office in London | European Parliament
Homepage of the European Parliament Liaison Office in the UK
Unlike Hastings, this sort of information seems to be obscure in the North East. You can discover your choices at Who Can I Vote For? You have a choice of seven. I have twelve to choose from.
"
Sinistral
Well-Known Member
This made me smile, so I thought it was worth sharing …....
The politics sketch
At the Brexit party press conference in London … Chipper Nigel Farage grins and barely tries to sound plausible.
John Crace 7 May 2019
It’s no deal or nothing for Nige, and the Brexit party is ready to negotiate the non-negotiable.
You have to feel sorry for Nigel Farage. Time and again he has told us how much he despises the EU and how its MEPs are worthless parasites. Yet for the last 20 years he just hasn’t been able to drag himself away. He has been forced against his will to pocket more than £12,000 a month in salary and living allowances, not to mention a generous pension on top, just for making the occasional unhelpful appearance in Brussels. It’s an outrage. And to add insult to injury, now he’s being made to get himself elected to the European parliament yet again. This time as leader of his new Brexit party.
For a man who clearly suffers so much in the service of his people, Nige was looking remarkably chipper at his latest press conference in London. Suntanned, relaxed and with the blissed-out look of someone whose grin has been stitched in place by a third-rate plastic surgeon operating out of the backstreets of LA, he is not so much a politician as a cable TV evangelist promising salvation in exchange for his followers selling their mothers and their souls.
First though, we were treated to a Robert Kilroy-Silk tribute act, the property developer and man of the people Richard Tice, whose wealth has played no part in establishing him as Farage’s go-to warmup act. “People want change in politics,” said Tice. Which seemed a rash claim given that Nige has been something of a broken record for decades now and was not offering anything very different from before.
No matter how often he tries to reinvent himself, Farage invariably reverts to his default settings. At heart he still has the air of the dodgy financial salesman who mis-sells you an insurance policy then later phones you up to say he is prepared to act on your behalf in reclaiming the money you are owed provided you agree to give him one-third of whatever he can get out of the insurance company. Not content with that, he will then try to get a third hit out of you by persuading you to reinvest the damages in yet another of his iffy schemes.
Tice went on to outline the new modus operandi. After winning the EU elections, the Brexit party was going to insist that its MEPs be invited to take part in negotiating a no-deal Brexit. Even though the whole point of a no-deal Brexit was that there wasn’t anything to negotiate, the Brexit party’s MEPs were going to be on hand to oversee the negotiations that weren’t going to happen.
Like Nige before them, they would be in Brussels to do absolutely nothing whatsoever.
“We have the highest-quality candidates,” Tice insisted. “People who are far better qualified in negotiations than our current MPs and civil servants.” Because the reason the UK was in its current state of crisis was that no one had asked Annunziata Rees-Mogg, Claire Fox, Ann Widdecombe or Martin Daubney to be involved as its chief Brexit negotiators.
Think about it a minute. What had been missing was a woman who couldn’t even negotiate the family nanny away from her brother, an apologist for IRA killings who holds others to far higher standards than she does herself, a Strictly Come Dancing contestant and a man whose chief contribution to public life had been to edit a lads’ mag. Who knew that the last three years could have been so different if only this quartet had been called into action. It’s a view, I suppose.
Not that Farage seemed bothered. “This is about democracy,” he declared, without any sense of irony. Nothing Nige has ever done has been about democracy. It’s always been all about him. Ukip was his baby and the Brexit party is much the same. He runs the organisation like a totalitarian regime.
What he says goes: everyone else is just a satellite orbiting his ego. Useful objects of desire to be used and discarded in the fulfilment of his narcissistic fantasies. Fantasies that change week by week, year by year. Before the referendum he was happy with a Norway-style Brexit. Now it’s no deal or nothing. Regardless of what the majority of the country may want. His is a democracy that tells the people what they are going to get and then sets about giving it to them.
Nige rattled on undeterred. The Brexit party would contest a general election but it wouldn’t have any credible policies. But he wouldn’t seek to become an MP himself. Far too risky. Seven times bitten, eight times shy. Rather he was far better off showing his MEPs the Brussels ropes. How to fiddle expenses. That sort of thing. And just because he had previous form on antisemitism and Islamophobia didn’t make him a racist.
After 30 minutes or so, Farage appeared to lose interest. Enough was enough. It had been a decent morning’s work. The more useless Westminster politicians appeared to be, the easier his job became. And right now it was something of a doddle. He didn’t need to sound even vaguely plausible. All he had to do was stand up and insist he would be different. As long as nobody started to look too closely, all would be well.
The politics sketch
At the Brexit party press conference in London … Chipper Nigel Farage grins and barely tries to sound plausible.
John Crace 7 May 2019
It’s no deal or nothing for Nige, and the Brexit party is ready to negotiate the non-negotiable.
You have to feel sorry for Nigel Farage. Time and again he has told us how much he despises the EU and how its MEPs are worthless parasites. Yet for the last 20 years he just hasn’t been able to drag himself away. He has been forced against his will to pocket more than £12,000 a month in salary and living allowances, not to mention a generous pension on top, just for making the occasional unhelpful appearance in Brussels. It’s an outrage. And to add insult to injury, now he’s being made to get himself elected to the European parliament yet again. This time as leader of his new Brexit party.
For a man who clearly suffers so much in the service of his people, Nige was looking remarkably chipper at his latest press conference in London. Suntanned, relaxed and with the blissed-out look of someone whose grin has been stitched in place by a third-rate plastic surgeon operating out of the backstreets of LA, he is not so much a politician as a cable TV evangelist promising salvation in exchange for his followers selling their mothers and their souls.
First though, we were treated to a Robert Kilroy-Silk tribute act, the property developer and man of the people Richard Tice, whose wealth has played no part in establishing him as Farage’s go-to warmup act. “People want change in politics,” said Tice. Which seemed a rash claim given that Nige has been something of a broken record for decades now and was not offering anything very different from before.
No matter how often he tries to reinvent himself, Farage invariably reverts to his default settings. At heart he still has the air of the dodgy financial salesman who mis-sells you an insurance policy then later phones you up to say he is prepared to act on your behalf in reclaiming the money you are owed provided you agree to give him one-third of whatever he can get out of the insurance company. Not content with that, he will then try to get a third hit out of you by persuading you to reinvest the damages in yet another of his iffy schemes.
Tice went on to outline the new modus operandi. After winning the EU elections, the Brexit party was going to insist that its MEPs be invited to take part in negotiating a no-deal Brexit. Even though the whole point of a no-deal Brexit was that there wasn’t anything to negotiate, the Brexit party’s MEPs were going to be on hand to oversee the negotiations that weren’t going to happen.
Like Nige before them, they would be in Brussels to do absolutely nothing whatsoever.
“We have the highest-quality candidates,” Tice insisted. “People who are far better qualified in negotiations than our current MPs and civil servants.” Because the reason the UK was in its current state of crisis was that no one had asked Annunziata Rees-Mogg, Claire Fox, Ann Widdecombe or Martin Daubney to be involved as its chief Brexit negotiators.
Think about it a minute. What had been missing was a woman who couldn’t even negotiate the family nanny away from her brother, an apologist for IRA killings who holds others to far higher standards than she does herself, a Strictly Come Dancing contestant and a man whose chief contribution to public life had been to edit a lads’ mag. Who knew that the last three years could have been so different if only this quartet had been called into action. It’s a view, I suppose.
Not that Farage seemed bothered. “This is about democracy,” he declared, without any sense of irony. Nothing Nige has ever done has been about democracy. It’s always been all about him. Ukip was his baby and the Brexit party is much the same. He runs the organisation like a totalitarian regime.
What he says goes: everyone else is just a satellite orbiting his ego. Useful objects of desire to be used and discarded in the fulfilment of his narcissistic fantasies. Fantasies that change week by week, year by year. Before the referendum he was happy with a Norway-style Brexit. Now it’s no deal or nothing. Regardless of what the majority of the country may want. His is a democracy that tells the people what they are going to get and then sets about giving it to them.
Nige rattled on undeterred. The Brexit party would contest a general election but it wouldn’t have any credible policies. But he wouldn’t seek to become an MP himself. Far too risky. Seven times bitten, eight times shy. Rather he was far better off showing his MEPs the Brussels ropes. How to fiddle expenses. That sort of thing. And just because he had previous form on antisemitism and Islamophobia didn’t make him a racist.
After 30 minutes or so, Farage appeared to lose interest. Enough was enough. It had been a decent morning’s work. The more useless Westminster politicians appeared to be, the easier his job became. And right now it was something of a doddle. He didn’t need to sound even vaguely plausible. All he had to do was stand up and insist he would be different. As long as nobody started to look too closely, all would be well.
Scotty99
Well-Known Member
So in the European Election the Brexit Party as a protest vote against the two main parties who have failed to deliver Brexit and failed democracy in this country.
For a General Election not Labour, Greens or Lib Dem as they are all anti shooting.
So little choice really.
For a General Election not Labour, Greens or Lib Dem as they are all anti shooting.
So little choice really.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
That's not really true: Shooting ‘essential to rural life’, say Lib Dems at Conference -
With their solid (and recently boosted) anchoring in local politics, the Lib Dems tend to take the local steer on this, but there certainly isn't any sort of anti-shooting dogma in the Lib Dems. With all the Brexit stuff, the fact that the "Liberal" part of the name refers to a solid commitment to civil liberties is overshadowed. But as a party, they don't really get involved in the class warfare stuff that is behind much of the Labour opposition, or the animal rights stuff (welfare, yes, but who is actually opposed to animal welfare?).
I'd say overall, it's a long way from being a LD main issue.
Hahahaha
Scotty99
Well-Known Member
Beware what political parties "say at conference", its usually there to catch votes and rarely makes it into the manifesto and even less into policy.
jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
And if it does make it into a manifesto it doesn't matter a dot as they just do as they please anyway..
Orion
Well-Known Member
And the Liebral Dems have recent form for it - remember the heavily promoted personal 'pledge' from many of their candidates not to increase student fees?
"If I had a pound for every lie Nick Clegg told I wouldn't have to take out a student loan,"
I am surprised to say this but NF's party for Europe and a spoiled ballot paper here - so many people have fought for democracy and we end up with politicians who do not understand democracy - I may even vote for NF for national elections - how bad can they be and compared to what ?
If only...
I think that you will find that most people voting for the Brexit Party have little to no clue what Democracy is either. How can voting for the Brexit Party, a party that has not even presented a party manifesto , who has a party leader that is under investigation for all sorts of slimy and dirty things and is a national embarrassment, be a democratic thing to do ?
Kindest regards, Olaf
jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
The CON party don't either last I heard and I honestly think that the only reason he is getting such scrutiny is because the establishment is frightened of the level of support he gets.
If you looked at any politician as hard as he's being looked into you would find many misdemeanours I'm sure
If you looked at any politician as hard as he's being looked into you would find many misdemeanours I'm sure
tackb
Well-Known Member
well as usual you are peddling your nonsense completely unrelated to the subject !
democracy is being able to freely vote for anyone or anything you like and then that vote being complied with if you are in a majority , what democracy is not is a majority vote being overruled because a minority don't like it.
tackb
Well-Known Member
I went to the trouble of writing to the main parties about shooting a while ago , the cons were wishy washy and duplicitous in their answer , labour who I would never vote for at least openly admitted they were anti gun which I respect , the libdems were also anti gun and open about it , ukip supported legal gun ownership , the greens never answered but a quick look at their manifesto should put you off voting for them!
walshie
Well-Known Member
Don't include me in your generalisation or presume what I do or don't know. Farage will be getting my vote along with millions of others. A vote for the main parties would let them know we don't really care about our democracy and that it's ok to ignore our wishes or what we voted for.
Farage isn't under investigation. The BBC and C4 with their obvious agenda are trying to smear him at every opportunity and it is frankly making them look foolish. Why aren't they out in the street hounding Chuka Ummana as to who is funding his comedy party "Change UK"? Why aren't they asking Corbyn who his bedfellows really are? Why are they singling out one party to try to discredit? Because anyone who's politics is anywhere right of Leon Trotsky is automatically "Far-right or Alt-right".
This couldn't be further from the truth. The whole political spectrum has shifted way, way left, so Labour are now led by a Marxist, the Tories are where Labour used to be (left) and the "Far-right" are where the true Conservatives used to be and should be.
So roll on next Thursday and we'll see just how many people want real Democracy, rather than the one you refer to.
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