Problems with ricochet

[Chriscotter]

Gents
Just after a bit of general advice, I’m tidying up rabbits on some land of mine and surrounding neighbours.

Fields are all grass approx 18”-2ft tall

Cut margin of 10ft mown height

Land is soft sand, round large potatoe sized stones approx 18” down but very rarely near surface

Rabbits are shot from sticks or front of quad as no 4x4 allowed.

I’m using cz 452 in .22rf with Winchester 40grn hollow nose small game bullets.

I’m having serious concerns about ricochet of the bullet. I occasionally miss as most rabbits are 80yds plus. Yes it’s better to be closer but the long open strips don’t allow that most of the time. Rifle is zeroed accurately at 80yds. The ricochet issue literally scares me half to death as the horrible zing noise as the bullet dissappears to god knows where. Iv tried different ammo and same effect. I’m aware the .22 is known for this and am wondering if it’s a case of swap to something like .17hmr (already on my ticket but not bought one yet) or if there is a solution I’m blatantly missing. Any usefull suggestions welcomed as iv not stopped shooting it for fear of a stray bullet.
Also, Not that is has any relevance but does anyone have a rough idea how far a ricochet bullet could travel out of pure curiosity and in no way using this to justify pulling trigger just to settle my mind about the 2 bullets that did go astray.
Thanks in advance
Chris w

 

[Alantoo]

I am not sure I can settle your mind about the 22LR...but I may unsettle it about all the other calibres and chamberings.

I believe any bullet may ricochet given the appropriate combination of its construction/materials, weight, velocity, angle of incidence, and density of the struck surface. It is just that with the 22LR it all comes together close enough to be within earshot.

The actual noise you heard at 80 yards takes energy to produce, more energy was lost when it struck and rebounded, and to make a noise the bullet is tumbling / oscillating rather than flying true so it obviously will be much reduced in total range.

Too many variables to say by how much though.

I have read that some people swear by the CCI segmented bullets to prevent the problem. Others say that those just give you 4 ricochetting objects but at least they would each be less weight than an air rifle pellet.

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

double post...

 

[FISH BOY]

I must admit as much as I love the .22 for its discretion and in the right place its an awesome tool, but my rimmy hasnt been out of the safe for a couple of years for exactly the same reason.

One of my permissions is a large sports centre with multiple rugby and football fields so being extremely flat the HMR is the only choice and having shot hundreds of rabbits there, I can honestly say I have never experienced that terrifying sound of a ricochet with it.

I remember carp fishing once and an argo turned up in the field behind, five mins later I heard the wizz of a round go over my bivvy. I shouted at them waking up the whole lake, but they knew what they had done and swiftly left.

As much as any shot should be carefully considered with regards to backstop, I do think that due to its design extra care needs to be taken when using a rimmy and what is effectively a 40gr solid lump of lead which can bounce in any direction if it hits anything hard.

Shame really as with the HMR being quite noisy it does put a time limit on a lamping session in certain areas.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Get an air rifle and accept there will be land it's simply not prudent to use a 22 rimfire on. Its implicit in the granting of open certificates that we exercise such discipline and judgement.

As you've no doubt experienced in those shots subject to ricochet, what looked like a perfectly suitable backstop was found seriously wanting.

K
Ps: Well done for calling a halt to proceedings on the land in question.

 

[Chriscotter]

Klenchblaize
The air gun just won’t reach the distances I need to reach or not with me behind the scope of carrying enough energy to humanely kill. Do people find the .17 near on elimates the ricochet issue????
I was very confident that sand land would absorb a bullet are near any angle but this just isn’t proving correct. Cheers for replies

 

[Klenchblaize]

I'll let more knowledgeable shooters take it from here.

K

 

[Andyquadra]

Try CCI segmented, they have made a big difference for me

 

[VSS]

I think that all projectiles (or at least, bits of them) will ricochet. It's just that we hear the 22lr when it goes, due to the quietness of the rifle and the shorter distances involved.
You will reduce them a lot (but not eliminate completely) by changing to CCI segmented rounds. I am on very stony ground, and I won't use any other 22lr round for hunting now.

 

[Hornet 6]

I have read that some people swear by the CCI segmented bullets to prevent the problem. Others say that those just give you 4 ricochetting objects but at least they would each be less weight than an air rifle pellet.

Alan

CCI segmented are all I have used for about 5 years now.
They are not a complete cure, but it does reduce the problem considerably.
there are three sections (not 4) so each section is about the same as a 17 grain hmr round, but far less aero dynamic.
They also kill really well.
But if 80 yards is your normal range then maybe you should be looking at a different round ?
The further you push .22lr the more ricochets you will get.

Neil.

 

[finnbear270]

This may be a way out, About 15 years back I had a farm to shoot rabbits only, they were everywhere, really overrun ... downsides, Main line Chester to Crewe one border, two footpaths ... you get the picture?, most would not bother ..... I asked the farmer if he had any farm equipment he could do without, such as an old trailer or some such, He parked this old rickety silage trailer at just the right range & left it a few days then I went in quietly & settled in, eventually the rabbits came out onto the margins & further out .... nailed a good bag in the first hour from the slightly more elevated & safer position ... let things settle for a while, then pop some more, ended up thinning out a couple of hundred just by moving the hide & leaving it a couple of days. Elevation & hides are the way with bunnies.

 

[Benji53]

Get a 17 then distance wont be as much of an issue either

 

[Highlandsjohn]

This may be a way out, About 15 years back I had a farm to shoot rabbits only, they were everywhere, really overrun ... downsides, Main line Chester to Crewe one border, two footpaths ... you get the picture?, most would not bother ..... I asked the farmer if he had any farm equipment he could do without, such as an old trailer or some such, He parked this old rickety silage trailer at just the right range & left it a few days then I went in quietly & settled in, eventually the rabbits came out onto the margins & further out .... nailed a good bag in the first hour from the slightly more elevated & safer position ... let things settle for a while, then pop some more, ended up thinning out a couple of hundred just by moving the hide & leaving it a couple of days. Elevation & hides are the way with bunnies.

Good thinking inside the box ..

 

[Musketeer]

I have a .22 and a .17.

Although the .17 does ricochet on occasion, it is very rarely. The last time was because I hit a piece of rusty steel rod sticking out a hedge that I had not seen through the scope.

The .22 would do so more regularly and I agree it is very unpleasant to hear it whizz away. I kept the .22 because it was quieter to use around the horses/stables and paddocks but having discovered that the horses don't care about the noise from the hmr and there is the reduced risk of ricochet, the hmr has become my go to rifle and I've not picked up the .22 in weeks. I'm considering putting in a variation for another hmr, for use with NV but not made up my mind yet.

 

[User00035]

As above. Don't swap the .22 for an HMR, get an HMR as well.

Missing the target makes no difference, and fretting about if will only make missing more likely. A .22 bullet will richochet after it has exited the rabbit, so if you've got stoney ground you will get ricochets more often than not, hit or miss, and if that's a problem, you need a different cartridge.

HMR rounds will ricochet as well, especially the hollow points, but even the BTs will if they strike a glancing blow against something with the side of the bullet without the tip making contact. This is more likely to happen with very shallow angle shots, but on my flinty cultivated ground I've found it's a very rare event. Even so, never take it for granted and it goes without saying that you choose your backstop accordingly. And when an HMR round goes, it really goes. It's not a dull whine like the .22. it's a high pitched scream and it sounds like it's going on for miles. Sometime you get a very small faint sounding ricochet with an HMR and I think that's a piece of copper jacket flying off.

 

[BLUEROLL]

Use a .177 PCP air rifle and do it on dark nights with a NV unit.

 

[Heym SR20]

Some thoughts.

1) what is behind where you shoot. If its clear open ground a ricochet is a non issue. If its a footpath, woioded and house its a big issue.

2) wait till ground is damp /wet after rain.

3) shoot for the body as its a bigger target than head and will soak up more energy. Yes it will destroy more meat bt is this a vermin stopping, or producing lots of food table type job.

4) try a higher velocity fragmenting bullet.

 

[VSS]

Some thoughts.

1) what is behind where you shoot. If its clear open ground a ricochet is a non issue. If its a footpath, woioded and house its a big issue.

2) wait till ground is damp /wet after rain.

3) shoot for the body as its a bigger target than head and will soak up more energy. Yes it will destroy more meat bt is this a vermin stopping, or producing lots of food table type job.

4) try a higher velocity fragmenting bullet.

+1 for the body shots.
A Winchester sub will go straight through a rabbit's head and ricochet off the ground behind, but a CCI segmented to the chest will be instant death with no exit and hence no ricochet. The three segments will go there separate ways within the rabbit, and do a lot of damage, but hind legs and loin will still be edible. In fact, that's the only bits I would eat anyway, so no loss. The rest goes to the dogs.
Also, less chance of a dangerous miss with the larger target area.
Head shots are fine, but sometimes you need to adjust what you do to suit the conditions.

 

[Chriscotter]

It’s farm land but a large field of free range pigs approx 1000 head so the lads do operate on there at all hours of day and I just can’t ever be happy pulling the trigger and listening to a bullet whistle into the wilderness whether there is a footpath or not. I do tend to shoot for the body for exactly the reasons you said. I’m not particularly bothered about the air rifle method to be honest. We do ferret them quite hard when the vegetation dies down but it’s just not possible during summer. I have ordered a .17 set up today which should be here end of next week so see how that goes.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

FAC air in 22
17Mach2
17HMR (noisy, can still ricochet)

Or if you wish to remain silent hides and high seats and early mornings!

Or find some mates with ferrets!