.25-35 Lever action?

[mChavez]

Hi All,

With little to do while on lockdown, I (like most of you, probably) am drooling over photos of rifles and deciding on what to get next.

A lever action has been on the wishlist for quite a while. Since a .45-70 will not penetrate Scottish deer, the choice narrows down to 30-30, unless one wants to go the BLR route.

Reading Chuck Hawkes, he mentions a .25-35 Winchester cartridge. Eureka! Perfect roe lever gun for the forest.

So why is guntrader not flooded with .25-35 lever actions? Is this pretty much an obsolete calibre? Does anyone use it/ have any experience with it? Seems to be little information on it.

Thanks!

 

[8x57]

"So why is guntrader not flooded with .25-35 lever actions?"

Perhaps because according to Barnes (Cartridges of the World) no American rifles have been made in this cartridge since the end of World War 2. He actually mentions that it is pretty much obsolete has a poor reputation for deer and it's use for deer stalking is banned in several U.S. states.

You also wouldn't be able to use it for any Scottish deer as it falls below the 2250 fps threshold by a fair bit. Also as regards E&W it only just exceeds the muzzle energy requirements for muntjac and CWD.

 

[mChavez]

Are we looking at the same calibre?
Wiki suggests the following velocities:

60 gr (4 g) JFP

3,026 ft/s (922 m/s)

1,220 ft⋅lbf (1,650 J)

75 gr (5 g) JFP

2,815 ft/s (858 m/s)

1,320 ft⋅lbf (1,790 J)

90 gr (6 g) LFP

2,513 ft/s (766 m/s)

1,458 ft⋅lbf (1,977 J)

117 gr (8 g) RN

2,357 ft/s (718 m/s)

1,444 ft⋅lbf (1,958 J)

That's fast enough and can probably be pushed to be red-leagal with hand-loads (not that it should).

Source(s): Hodgdon

 

[plumber01]

hi , I'm pretty sure a 45-70 will penetrate a Scottish deer, they can take down buffalo, it may have a problem with speed and trajectory, but it will definitely pierce one, even if it has a quarter inch steel amour plate!
many people buy a 45-70, fire about ten shots, and suddenly gain a lot of respect for cowboys ! then they put it in the rack , and never use it, especially if it has a short barrel .
In the sates a 30-30 is probably one of the most common rifles for hunting deer , and they cant all be wrong. good luck, and watch out for those Scottish deer, if they cant be stopped by a 45-70,,,,,,best let them be !

 

[plumber01]

also , funny enough I have been looking at lever actions, and cant decide whether to go 357 or 44mag? the sensible me says 357 , the childish fool says man up and get a 44mag, only ever going to be used on a range, ( unless this virus causes an apocalypse)

 

[mChavez]

I'm pretty sure a 45-70 will penetrate a Scottish deer

That's not what the lawmakers decided, unfortunately.

 

[8x57]

Are we looking at the same calibre?
Wiki suggests the following velocities:

60 gr (4 g) JFP

3,026 ft/s (922 m/s)

1,220 ft⋅lbf (1,650 J)

75 gr (5 g) JFP

2,815 ft/s (858 m/s)

1,320 ft⋅lbf (1,790 J)

90 gr (6 g) LFP

2,513 ft/s (766 m/s)

1,458 ft⋅lbf (1,977 J)

117 gr (8 g) RN

2,357 ft/s (718 m/s)

1,444 ft⋅lbf (1,958 J)

That's fast enough and can probably be pushed to be red-leagal with hand-loads (not that it should).

Source(s): Hodgdon

25-35 Winchester (25-35 WCF)
The figures quoted by Barnes are;

60 SP 2800 fps 1045 ft/lb. Source Hornady.
60 SP 2900 fps 1120 ft/lb. Source Hornady.
117 SP 2300 fps 1375 ft/lb. Source Hornady.
117 SP 2200 fps 1258 ft/lb. Source Hornady.
117 FL 2230 fps 1292 ft/lb. Winchester factory load.

By comparison a 158 grn .357 Magnum out of a 20-24 inch barrel at 2000 fps would produce 1430 ft/lb of energy.

 

[mChavez]

60 SP 2900 fps 1120 ft/lb. Source Hornady.
117 SP 2300 fps 1375 ft/lb. Source Hornady.

So the first one is roe-legal, as is anything up to ~90gn by the looks of it.

 

[8x57]

also , funny enough I have been looking at lever actions, and cant decide whether to go 357 or 44mag? the sensible me says 357 , the childish fool says man up and get a 44mag, only ever going to be used on a range, ( unless this virus causes an apocalypse)

Go .44 mag rather than .357 mag. ask the serious competitive gallery shooters why. In addition if you load a 200 grn bullet you will be able to achieve the necessary energy level to use it for larger deer in E&W.

 

[8x57]

So the first one is roe-legal, as is anything up to ~90gn by the looks of it.

Sorry, Yes that one would be roe legal in Scotland as its over the 2450 fps requirement.

 

[mChavez]

I think we should bring it back. With modern heads bullets and modern powders, it should outperform .223 by a good margin I'd think.
.25 SD Express
How does that sound?

If 30-30 brass can be necked down, I don't see this being a difficult round to load for.
Can moderns lever actions be re-chambered into it without feeding issues?

One can dream, of course. Being self-employed in current conditions and with stock markets wrecked, I would be as close to getting a custom .25-35 as I am to getting a drilling.

 

[scrumbag]

I'm really not sure 25-32 is that common in the US. I get the feeling that with Whitetail / Mule deer it is rather anemic. And in the US where if you can use a straight wall cartridge in a lever action why would you not use .357 Mag?

The problem with .45-70 is it won't do Scottish deer velocities I understand and that can be an issue with .30-30 too.

.44 mag can be got to Roe / Fallow etc levels in England but tends to need 200 or 210gr bullets not the classic 240gr

The ideal combo if you can do it might be a BLR in .358W

Cheapo 357 bullets loaded at gallery velocities then a 200gr pill should make it deer legal all over the UK. (Slight fly in oinment, have heard some BLRs don't like feeding with pistol bullets)

Scrummy

 

[mChavez]

Scrum - never had a chance to handle a BLR, but I've read that it handles more like a bolt action than a lever action?

 

[mChavez]

Just to continue on the topic:
Hornady make the brass:

Hornady Rifle Brass 25-35 WIN (50 Pack) (HORN-86101) - Premier Distributors

<p>Hornady produces brass with the same precision, attention to detail and focus on perfection that has made them a world leader in bullets.</p> <p>50 PACK</p>

www.cdsgltd.co.uk

Lee make the dies:

2 DIE SET 25/35 WIN

<div class="table-wrapper"> <p><b>.25‑35 Winchester Full‑Length Sizing 2‑Die Set</b></p> <p> </p> <p><b>Description:</b></p> <p>Steel Pacesetter set designed for full-length resizing of .25‑35 Winchester brass—formed in small production runs.</p> <p> </p>

shop.reloadingstore.eu

I think I might give this a try after the lockdown...

 

[takbok]

Just to continue on the topic:
Hornady make the brass:

Hornady Rifle Brass 25-35 WIN (50 Pack) (HORN-86101) - Premier Distributors

<p>Hornady produces brass with the same precision, attention to detail and focus on perfection that has made them a world leader in bullets.</p> <p>50 PACK</p>

www.cdsgltd.co.uk

Lee make the dies:

2 DIE SET 25/35 WIN

<div class="table-wrapper"> <p><b>.25‑35 Winchester Full‑Length Sizing 2‑Die Set</b></p> <p> </p> <p><b>Description:</b></p> <p>Steel Pacesetter set designed for full-length resizing of .25‑35 Winchester brass—formed in small production runs.</p> <p> </p>

shop.reloadingstore.eu

I think I might give this a try after the lockdown...

Go for it!

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Scrum - never had a chance to handle a BLR, but I've read that it handles more like a bolt action than a lever action?

You've probably heard that because it is a bolt action. Multilug like an AR15 bolt. To me the lever actuation felt like any other lever gun though. I suppose it might also be that it tends to be chambered in rounds significantly higher velocity than "normal" lever gun offerings, so maybe some people react to it being a more "snappy" gun to shoot?

I've only handled and not shot one though. I'd happily have one. Since it's become obvious to me that both my sons are right handed I'm trying to gravitate towards ambidextrous rifles....

 

[Smellydog]

25/35 is all but obsolete and if you find a decent Winchester it's gonna cost.
When I say obsolete I don't mean useless!
No deer on earth will tell the difference in the maths or law.
Quoting figures from books are limited, they are rough guides. Reloads pretty much can beat any data or guide if one wants to.
Plenty 30/30 about and I love it.

 

[mChavez]

Thanks.

I see there is a 7-30 Waters as well, which is a necked down 30-30. Also an option.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Thanks.

I see there is a 7-30 Waters as well, which is a necked down 30-30. Also an option.

Tube magazine safe bullets are really limited. I suppose you could use BTs and remove the tips, some of them might then have a wide enough meplat to be safe.

 

[Smellydog]

7-30 waters is a good round. Unfortunately it never caught on.
My 30/30 took deer upto 140yds in my hands. It took two red stags too no problems at all.