Prices of pups abroad and at home

[Wolverine]

As some thought I was heckling another thread on here I thought I’d be better to start a thread of my own about the same issue.

There are a few things to point out within this thread.

Firstly,people who are breeding BGS and HS here in the UK and Ireland have no clue what they are breeding.

There was a litter on here for sale where the pups look healthy,it’s a pity there was on the pedigree arguably a dog that has sired more epileptic dogs than any other BGS alive or dead.There were actually epileptic dogs bred on both sides of this litter-something that should never ever happen.
The pups may look healthy but the owner of the bitch never even knew this prior to breeding the litter.

People may think they have brilliant dogs but it doesn’t necessarily make it so.
Especially when the lines aren’t known by those that are doing the breeding.

Even those who purport to know,guess what,yup,they dont.....having a dog for years before anyone else does not make you know anything about the breed if that knowledge comes from the wrong place.

As for the title of this thread-pup prices have went crazy at the moment.
Not in the clubs that we are involved with,I wonder why that is ?

No change in price for years now.

It is also fact that the very best quality dogs that are proven and tested to work at the highest level with judges of years of experience,conform to breed standards and are the most important thing......healthy......are much cheaper than those that have none of the above.

To me it’s a no brainer.
A pup from a club with a support network that gets the best out of the dog and the handler for a very reasonable price.
It’s not only the dog that learns in this,the handler is taught probably more.

BGS pup prices in the clubs-€750-850....again note Euro
HS pup prices in the clubs-€750-850.....

Ask how can it be ?

The breeds interests are at the heart of the clubs,not monetary profit or indeed saying our dogs are better than those with no papers or unrecognised papers-the main difference with papers vs unrecognised papers is the health of the pups that you’re buying.

Its Russian roulette,add the bullet and spin the revolver with dogs from unrecognised papers.

All the best
George

 

[biffo]

Sorry, BGS and HS ?? Bit slow today.

 

[Wolverine]

BGS-Bayerischer Gebirgsschweißhund-“Bavarian mountain hound”
HS-Hannoverscher Schweißhund-“Hanoverian hound”

 

[jimmy milnes]

Couldn't agree with you more wully matey

I had a thread running a while ago regarding the "greeders" breeding dogs without any thought other than the money they would make,
I can't for the life of me think why this ridiculous price rise has occurred since lockdown other than folk not being at work, nice weather, only allowed to do certain activities initially ie.walking so thought it would be great to have a dog, as I said in my thread before I'm dreading winter as I reckon the dog shelters will be inundated.
As some of you know I've just imported a 100% blue blooded GSP from slovenia and when I collected the pup she made me a meal an we chatted about many GSP/dog things, and one was how stupid the price in the UK has gone and her opinion was it can only be a bad thing for the breeds due to spurious breeding.
My pup as I've said has a pedigree of impeccable standing with all the dogs listed having passed hunting exams to prove they are worthy of breeding from. The family have bred only GSPs for 50 years.
My pup needed to be kept for 15 weeks all appropriate inoculations done export paperwork worming and all the other hassles of having pups, the breeder socialsed the pup properly an gave her many life experiences at the correct times as puppies have doors in there minds that need opening at correct times.
They vet all the puppies new owners and won't allow one to go unless it's to a working home.
AN ALL THIS FOR WAY LESS THAN A GRAND !!!!
Unfortunately I know of very few people in this country that take all this care an attention to detail in puppy rearing an that's why dog breeds in the UK are screwed.
Cheers for reading this far
Jimmy

 

[Wolverine]

Performance breeding and who the pups go to is the way forward Jimmy......
People with the breeds interests at heart rather than as you say......”spurious breeding”
ATB
George

 

[CarlW]

I know nothing about BGS or HS lines. I also don't like these debates taking place on people's for-sale threads. It is good there is a separate thread.

I strongly believe that money should never be the reason for breeding a dog. You should only have a litter to improve and continue your highest-performing lines of whatever breed you happen to love. It's really that simple, as far as I'm concerned. If you're doing it properly, you make a loss on breeding dogs...

 

[Farmer_J]

I agree. I have now recently purchased a pup from a reputable spaniel trialler/trainer who has been very well known in the gundog trialling circuit here in uk. I found that prices from the people who have an interest to see their litters go to working homes have their prices set accordingly. Yes they’re higher than usual but not like the prices you’re seeing on ‘petsforhomes’. However you have to do the legwork and put out feelers and make contact with these people, they rarely advertise as most sales are word of mouth or you’re on a waiting list. Talking to the guy even for the amount he’s selling at you’re not really making much, with the amount of time and effort you’re putting in to get to where you can sell from FTch dogs taken into consideration.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

BGS-Bayerischer Gebirgsschweißhund-“Bavarian mountain hound”
HS-Hannoverscher Schweißhund-“Hanoverian hound”

Hanoverian bloodhound

 

[Jagare]

Working dog pups here are expensive when you compare to the UK pre Covid. We have many working breeds for hunting Moose, roe and hares and plenty of good breeders. People here buy a hunting dog to hunt with. People don't buy a Norsk Gråhund or Drever for a pet.
For many in the UK a BGS or HS is just another stalking accessory. They will only be trained to a fraction of its potential but they are what every budding deer manager must have. I give a sad smile smile when see Bavarian pups and mongrel Bavarian crosses advertised on SD from non proved parents .
It didn't take long for the UK to feck up a breed that has been nurtured and protected in its home Country

 

[finnbear270]

I have always hankered after a Teckel, for stalking, some may say that is not their best arena, but I would beg to differ .... If it came about that I were able to have a deer dog Teckel, it would be a conversation with the likes of Keith Edmunds for the first advice.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I think that this thread is trying to cover a myriad of very distinct issues.....

1. There is a BGS/HS breeding/working club that assures the very best breeding at very modest prices....Why would anyone wanting one of this breed buy from elsewhere when these opportunity seems perfect?

2. UK 2020 pup prices have gone through the roof - regardless of breed or breeding. Yes, they certainly have

3. Performance breeding is better than not breeding for performance. Nobody could deny that.

4. People who are breeding BGS and HS here in the UK and Ireland have no clue what they are breeding. I assume that means ALL breeders of these breeds in the UK and Ireland. Now that is one helluva sweeping statement.

The opening post is certainly breed specific but many of the replies are not. While the BGS/HS breed club system seems incredibly impressive. I would like to think the proof of success is in the puppies produced. With that in mind, may I ask what is the success ratio of litters? How many pups from the litters make the grade? It must be very close to 100% I would have thought.

With dachshunds from Germany the same does not apply. Yes the DTK has a great trialing system and breeding is regulated but not to the extent of the BGS/HS fraternity mentioned above and prices are very comparable to western Europe at around £1000 - £1300.

Some will mention that you can buy a quality dachshund from eastern Europe for just a few hundred quid and you can but you do need to know what you are looking for. You can end up with a poorly constructed dog from very game but quite ugly parents/line as that is where the breeding focus can often be. Conversely you can by top quality at prices much closer to western Europe prices. And there is a lot in between.

Personally, if a Serbian breeder of high repute has for sale a pup from excellent lines and top quality parents (top quality in my opinion, I stress) then I would pay him the same price that I would pay any other Nationality. I would not feel happy paying him £500 for a pup that is worth £1000 just because of where he lives.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I have always hankered after a Teckel, for stalking, some may say that is not their best arena, but I would beg to differ .... If it came about that I were able to have a deer dog Teckel, it would be a conversation with the likes of Keith Edmunds for the first advice.

There are many with far more knowledge than me, but I openly share everything that I know and sign post to others what I don't.

 

[countrryboy]

I know nothing about BGS or HS lines. I also don't like these debates taking place on people's for-sale threads. It is good there is a separate thread.

I strongly believe that money should never be the reason for breeding a dog. You should only have a litter to improve and continue your highest-performing lines of whatever breed you happen to love. It's really that simple, as far as I'm concerned. If you're doing it properly, you make a loss on breeding dogs...

I don't know nothing about the breeds or lines either, but I know George does.
And I understand why no heckling in classifieds.

But I know I would be a bit miffed if I had just shelled out a decent ammount of cash on pups that may have a very high chance of having epilepsy.
Even if not actually affected I imagine 100% off pups will be carriers for it if on both sides of pedigree.

Ideally if true ( which im sure it will be as he does know his lines) the KC should be putting markers on all dogs linked and as no test for epliesy no litter siblings off an affected dog were bred from.
U'd very quickly wipe epliepsy out in 3 or 4 gens.
If the available info was out there and shared on breed club pages would be relatively easy to wipe out, but it would mean costing some breeders money and seeing lines lost

With the MyKC thing on KC website the technology already exists if certain heriditory diseases where compulsory reported and logged on the site.
If u put ur dogs name in it would flash up any related dogs with heriditory problems atleast then informed breeders or buyers can make an informed decision with breeding.
It may not be all that easy even for considerate breeders to find info on related dogs, esp as so many are now sold all over the country so they will never find out wether a litter brother has a problem or not.

 

[countrryboy]

There are many with far more knowledge than me, but I openly share everything that I know and sign post to others what I don't.

U can't say fairer than that

And to be fair most proper dog men are the same, I know I have been very lucky to work dogs alongside some great trainers over the years and had plenty of advice and tips off them.
U just u have to look a bit harder to find them than pets4 homes

 

[User00014]

I have spent £1000’s trooping across the continent on dog related chinaginans.

I know 100% fact I have the only BGS bitch in the U.K. that is tested in work, health tested including blood samples to Switzerland for DNA database to help combat epilepsy, hip scored and fully conformity tested!

this is not me being big headed, it’s me doing a proper job, I never do a half cocked job of anything!

Just think how many Bavarian litters there has been, this year let alone in the 5 years ives had Heidi.

most have done nothing more than a hip score, many have not even done that

when I see what dog breeding has become, I feel ashamed.

the breeder where I got Heidi from wanted me to be the first breeder of KBGS / ISHV litter.

That is the only duty I have not for filled.

will I become a breeder?

More than likely not!

i see more and more posts on the SD looking to the continent for dogs as slowly more are realising of the qualities over in Europe.

my advice to those searching for continental breeds as follows.

join the clubs, learn from them, because is a wonderful and completely different dog world over there!

I will not have anymore dogs after mine have all passed, I have other interests and I owe my wife many years of holidays and gifts to make up for all the trips away.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I have spent £1000’s trooping across the continent on dog related chinaginans.

I know 100% fact I have the only BGS bitch in the U.K. that is tested in work, health tested including blood samples to Switzerland for DNA database to help combat epilepsy, hip scored and fully conformity tested!

But why is that? Why do you have the only work tested, hip scored and health tested BGS in the UK? There must be a reason why others cannot/have not done the same?

Is it too difficult to get the correct quality BGS into the UK? If it is...That seems more part of the problem than part of the solution.

 

[jimmy milnes]

But why is that? Why do you have the only work tested, hip scored and health tested BGS in the UK? There must be a reason why others cannot/have not done the same?

Is it too difficult to get the correct quality BGS into the UK? If it is...That seems more part of the problem than part of the solution.

If I may Lee, IMHO it's along the same lines as breeding pups in this country, people are lazy, it's far easier to drop 20 mins down the road and get something than do your homework prove to the breeder your in it for the right reasons then answer loads of difficult questions be put on a waiting list and possibly travel to Europe to collect your new pup or fir that matter a stud dog I guess.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

If I may Lee, IMHO it's along the same lines as breeding pups in this country, people are lazy, it's far easier to drop 20 mins down the road and get something than do your homework prove to the breeder your in it for the right reasons then answer loads of difficult questions be put on a waiting list and possibly travel to Europe to collect your new pup or fir that matter a stud dog I guess.

Sorry Jimmy but I think there is more to it than that. There must be. Plenty of people from the UK have taken the time, effort and spent the money to import breeds such as dachshunds, GWP's, GSP's, Viszlas etc.

Now, some might say that what they have imported is not of the correct quality, but that is not the point in question, the point is that they have made the effort and not just bought from down the road.

So why is there only one work tested, health tested Bavarian Mountain Hound in the whole of the UK?

 

[deerstalker.308]

Whether one likes it or not, markets dictate prices. There is a far wider market in the U.K. for labradors and spaniels as family pets and working dogs that will ever be for some of the very niche tracking hounds found in Europe. They may be “in vogue” currently within the stalking world, but that represents a very small proportion of the market for dogs.
not everyone has the confidence, knowledge etc to think about importing a dog, and so will always look to the more local options as a compromise, some may be u fortunate but many will have happy existences with their pooch of choice without incident. The dog breeding world is utterly rammed with self professed purists who love to rant about their values, and shame anyone else who has the audacity to question or do different. Railroading others folks threads, both directly and indirectly with this one, na, no need.

 

[User00014]

But why is that? Why do you have the only work tested, hip scored and health tested BGS in the UK? There must be a reason why others cannot/have not done the same?

Is it too difficult to get the correct quality BGS into the UK? If it is...That seems more part of the problem than part of the solution.

1- I never do a half cocked job

2- I made a promise to my breeder to for fill my obligations to the breed and the KBGS also to do the best for the dog. I have kept all my promises.

3- it’s all about following the rules!

I waited 3 years for my chance to get a pup from Germany, I wasn’t going to mess my chances up.

keith look at the inbreeding of the Bgs and hs i. The U.K.!

I will sterilise my bitch before anyone in the U.K. would have one of her pups, her bloodline is too precious.