The "Mad Minute"

[Foxyboy43]

I was reading (yet again) a couple of books on the formation of the british and colonial sniping schools in WW1 and came across something which many SD members will have heard of but for those who have not the following extract beggars belief:-

"The term ‘Mad Minute’ was also used to describe a regular demonstration, by instructors at the School of Musketry at Hythe, Kent that was intended to show officer trainees the maximum rate of accurate fire that could be achieved by an expert with a service rifle.

The first Mad Minute record was set by Sergeant Major Jesse Wallingford in 1908, scoring 36 hits on a 48-inch target at 300 yards (4.5 mils/ 15.3 moa).[1]

Another world record of 38 hits, all within the 24 inch target at 300 yards (2.25 mils/ 7.6 moa), is said to have been set in about 1914 by a Sergt.-Instructor Snoxall. [2] ‘Sergt.-Instructor Snoxall’ was probably Sergeant Frank Snoxell of the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, who was an instructor at the School of Musketry from October 1913 until January 1917. He was a Sergeant-Instructor from October 1913 until he was promoted in March 1915. Sergeant Snoxell had previously been a Sergeant-Instructor at the Branch School of Musketry at Satara in India."

These astounding performances were achieved using the british army standard SMLE bolt-action .303 which, unusually, compared to most other battle rifles had a 10 shot magazine rather than 5 and cocked on closing rather than opening which made it very fast to cycle. However, even with a 10 round mag this was prodigious shooting - you do the maths, even getting 30+ plus aimed shots off in one minute including 3 magazine changes is nigh on impossible never mind repeatedly hitting a 48 or 24 inch target at 300 metres!! I wonder if these guys were stalkers??

 

[Fair Hill]

Funnily enough at the 1908 Olympics there was an event called the single shot running deer event and another called the double shot running deer event.

 

[User00040]

I can't be arsed to dig it out now but Major Hesketh Prichard (prominent adventurer, writer, cricketer and big game hunter of the 1900's) criticised the 'Mad Minute' in his excellent book, 'Sniping in France'.

The British Army of the time, and especially the infantry were very fond of parade ground drills which did little to help their soldiers, and in some cases hindered them. How else did such a magnificent fighting force get torn a new arsehole by some Boer farmers with a few horses and even less rifles and ammo?

The best soldiers that H.Prichard encountered by far were the Lovat Scouts, traditionally recruited from a stock of Highland Stalkers, Ghillies, Shepherds and every other hill man who made the grade. I suspect that nearly every one of them would have shot before joining and the very best were probably poachers!

Not sure how expending 30+ rounds at a single, stationary target on a (presumably) flat range across a known distance serves any value apart from showboating.

If you want to read about real skill, look for 'The White Sniper' regarding Simo Häyhä in the Winter War against the Russians. 'Just' a farm hand in a remote part of Finland yet he killed over 500 Russian soldiers over the course of 90 days, all done with iron sights.

He preferred to get so close that the Russians would send artillery some 300 odd yards behind his firing point then wait till nightfall to withdraw, all in weather that was below freezing.

Even more impressive is the fact that he didn't try to make a career out of writing 'hero-worship' accounts after the war.

Some of the recent 'sniper' stuff coming out of the US or even UK is pretty distasteful. I don't think they would be quite so gung-ho if their enemy had the same or better kit...

 

[enfieldspares]

Funnily enough at the 1908 Olympics there was an event called the single shot running deer event and another called the double shot running deer event.

Yes. Google Walter Winans.

 

[enfieldspares]

Not sure how expending 30+ rounds at a single, stationary target on a (presumably) flat range across a known distance serves any value apart from showboating.

It helped do this.



Musketry training is not, or should not be, about the elevation of one or two excellent shots above the rest of the cadre. It is, or should be, about making good, competent above average shots of all of the cadre.

The idea behind the "Mad Minute" was also that. And in a defensive position (as above) the NCO or Subaltern giving the fire order would have usually prepared a range card so would call out the the distance as part of that fire order.

The much quoted feats were what in many ways to show what the rifle was capable of not necessarily what was required as a baseline. The standard, as far as I read in the contemporaneous Musketry Regulations, desired of all men was that they be capable of fifteen aimed shots in a minute loading from the five round chargers held in their webbing in fastened pouches.

To train a man to fire accurate, fast, repetitive shots by teaching a man how to keep the rifle in the shoulder and on the aim whilst learning to manipulate the bolt and reload the rifle (from chargers) with the maximum of economy of movement and the minimum of wasted "down" time.

And that if Sergeant X or Sergeant Y could do thirty a minute then he, that soldier, Private Z, could have confidence that he should and would, given time, to be able to do fifteen a minute.

The reasoning behind "Snaps" and "Double Snaps" is also partly to teach fast manipulation of the bolt whilst keeping the rifle in the shoulder and in the aim. It has with self-loading rifles of course lost that element of the equation.

It is why much training was done with the Lee Enfield lying prone as if engaging a target using a literal heap of drill rounds in chargers. The replicating this firing, reloading, firing (and when necessary re-charging the magazine from a charger) was taught also as an exercise in itself.

The principle being that with practice comes speed and with speed the less time spent on manipulating the bolt gives more time in that minute available to decide and then place the shot. .

 

[User00040]

Yes. Google Walter Winans.

Liked to have deer drives put on in the Highlands. Quite an interesting character. Olympic gold medals in both the aforementioned event, and... sculpture.

 

[enfieldspares]

Yes. Sculpture as an Olympic Sport.

 

[User00040]

It helped do this.

View attachment 189113

Musketry training is not, or should not be, about the elevation of one or two excellent shots above the rest of the cadre. It is, or should be, about making good, competent above average shots of all of the cadre.

The idea behind the "Mad Minute" was also that. To train a man to fire accurate, fast, repetitive shots by teaching a man how to keep the rifle in the shoulder and on the aim whilst learning to manipulate the bolt and reload the rifle (from chargers) with the minimum of economy of movement and the minimum of "down" time.

Hiram Maxim's contribution towards making the concept of the 'Mad Minute' redundant, and the general reluctance to deviate from established drills, plus the fact that the original BEF was nearly wiped out by the time trenches were being dug (let's not forget that elements of the German frontlined claimed they could see the Eiffel Tower), stand as testament that the British Infantryman's chances of survival in WW1 were more dependant on where on the line he found himself (much like every other poor sod) rather than the ability to keep up a sustained rate of fire.

A single well placed shot can be more morale sapping than an occassional barrage that goes overhead...

 

[enfieldspares]

Hiram Maxim's contribution towards making the concept of the 'Mad Minute' redundant, and the general reluctance to deviate from established drills, plus the fact that the original BEF was nearly wiped out by the time trenches were being dug (let's not forget that elements of the German frontlined claimed they could see the Eiffel Tower), stand as testament that the British Infantryman's chances of survival in WW1 were more dependant on where on the line he found himself (much like every other poor sod) rather than the ability to keep up a sustained rate of fire.

A single well placed shot can be more morale sapping than an occassional barrage that goes overhead...

Read the German accounts of Mons 1914 to see how effective those that suffered it found it.

Machine guns, per se, are not as effective against tactically well spaced infantry attacking in line as is often thought.





They do best work if placed to fire in enfilade.

 

[norcan]

Here is a "fun" competition from Norway.. The 5round mag really hinders them.
The winner got 36 out of 36.

He (the closest to the camera) shoots at 6.40 mark.

 

[Pedro]

I suspect that any drill that made soldiers more effective with their rifles before shipping to France was of some benefit. Sadly only a very small number of recruits were ghillies, gamekeepers and the like that were familiar with firearms and adept at addressing targets at any distance. The first steps were to familiarise recruits with their weapons and build muscle memory in cycling and aiming them quickly. Because I suspect that in many scenarios when running across no mans land and clearing trenches, the most desired quality would have been to work the bolt as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Indeed so alien to warfare were most new soldiers at the time (despite the British Empire having been in quite a few conflicts in recent years to WW1, but nothing on that scale) that they baulked at actually shooting at another human being. Many shot over the heads of the enemy and this became a problem for officers and NCOs to address. It is why targets on MOD ranges were a picture of a charging soldier. I suspect (hope) that naturally most men would not want to kill others unless it became necessary to do so to save their own skin.

 

[User00040]

Read the German accounts of Mons 1914 to see how effective those that suffered it found it.

Yes, but following their initial offensive, WW1 was essentially a defensive war for the Germans when the large offensives employed by the British and French generals did little but squander lives and resources.

I don't see how a 'Mad Minute' would have worked when advancing uphill onto a fortified machine-gun nest which has plenty of ammo and spare barrels.

 

[enfieldspares]

Yes, but following their initial offensive, WW1 was essentially a defensive war for the Germans when the large offensives employed by the British and French generals did little but squander lives and resources.

I don't see how a 'Mad Minute' would have worked when advancing uphill onto a fortified machine-gun nest which has plenty of ammo and spare barrels.

It wouldn't. It was of its time...and of the circumstance of that time of a professional army of well trained career soldiers defending linear positions in Western Europe against an enemy infantry regiments advancing over open country. And whose troops would be mostly of regiments of drafts of two year conscripts or regiments of re-mobilised reserves of earlier years' two year trained conscripts.

 

[Fair Hill]

Yes. Google Walter Winans.

Google Joshua Milner the Irishman who won gold in the same games. Incredible marksman at 1,000 yards. Dropped just two points out of a possible perfect score of 100.

 

[Foxyboy43]

I can't be arsed to dig it out now but Major Hesketh Prichard (prominent adventurer, writer, cricketer and big game hunter of the 1900's) criticised the 'Mad Minute' in his excellent book, 'Sniping in France'.

The British Army of the time, and especially the infantry were very fond of parade ground drills which did little to help their soldiers, and in some cases hindered them. How else did such a magnificent fighting force get torn a new arsehole by some Boer farmers with a few horses and even less rifles and ammo?

The best soldiers that H.Prichard encountered by far were the Lovat Scouts, traditionally recruited from a stock of Highland Stalkers, Ghillies, Shepherds and every other hill man who made the grade. I suspect that nearly every one of them would have shot before joining and the very best were probably poachers!

Not sure how expending 30+ rounds at a single, stationary target on a (presumably) flat range across a known distance serves any value apart from showboating.

If you want to read about real skill, look for 'The White Sniper' regarding Simo Häyhä in the Winter War against the Russians. 'Just' a farm hand in a remote part of Finland yet he killed over 500 Russian soldiers over the course of 90 days, all done with iron sights.

He preferred to get so close that the Russians would send artillery some 300 odd yards behind his firing point then wait till nightfall to withdraw, all in weather that was below freezing.

Even more impressive is the fact that he didn't try to make a career out of writing 'hero-worship' accounts after the war.

Some of the recent 'sniper' stuff coming out of the US or even UK is pretty distasteful. I don't think they would be quite so gung-ho if their enemy had the same or better kit...

I can't be arsed to dig it out now but Major Hesketh Prichard (prominent adventurer, writer, cricketer and big game hunter of the 1900's) criticised the 'Mad Minute' in his excellent book, 'Sniping in France'.

The British Army of the time, and especially the infantry were very fond of parade ground drills which did little to help their soldiers, and in some cases hindered them. How else did such a magnificent fighting force get torn a new arsehole by some Boer farmers with a few horses and even less rifles and ammo?

The best soldiers that H.Prichard encountered by far were the Lovat Scouts, traditionally recruited from a stock of Highland Stalkers, Ghillies, Shepherds and every other hill man who made the grade. I suspect that nearly every one of them would have shot before joining and the very best were probably poachers!

Not sure how expending 30+ rounds at a single, stationary target on a (presumably) flat range across a known distance serves any value apart from showboating.

If you want to read about real skill, look for 'The White Sniper' regarding Simo Häyhä in the Winter War against the Russians. 'Just' a farm hand in a remote part of Finland yet he killed over 500 Russian soldiers over the course of 90 days, all done with iron sights.

He preferred to get so close that the Russians would send artillery some 300 odd yards behind his firing point then wait till nightfall to withdraw, all in weather that was below freezing.

Even more impressive is the fact that he didn't try to make a career out of writing 'hero-worship' accounts after the war.

Some of the recent 'sniper' stuff coming out of the US or even UK is pretty distasteful. I don't think they would be quite so gung-ho if their enemy had the same or better kit...

Thanks for this, indeed I have actually read all of those books and many more besides (the joy of Kindle) and found all of them fascinating and in different ways.
In relation to the Boer War IMHO the reasons the army suffered so badly included their inability to adopt new tactics to fit the prevailing battlefield, the Boer hit and run tactics and above all of course the Mauser rifle - a very painful lesson to an army apparently still rooted in Crimean tactics. A certain Zulu king also demonstrated this to effect on the same continent if I recall - despite Stanley Baker and Michael Caine. Sadly the “donkeys” repeated this dreadful mistake only a generation or so later.
In fairness to the two men mentioned in my original post I posted this in tribute to their undoubted skills with the SMLE and agree with other views that it demonstrated in spades how effective a well trained soldier armed with the then standard issue rifle could be. It is a matter of record that the germans thought they were facing machineguns when they first encountered the BEF - this I think speaks volumes for the 15 aimed rounds per minute training. Incidentally and as a passing thought - only if you had to of course, would you rather attack a position where you knew the defenders could fire up to 30 aimed rpm or only a mere 15?
The other more chilling thought that often crosses my mind when I read these accounts of both wars is that it was a very personal way of killing, rather than shooting at charging “blobs” in a mass attack, the sniper often shot their man after prolonged observation and learning their habits, indeed many of the german snipers had been given names by the tommies - tough guys indeed.

 

[kennyc]

all the mad minutes your heart could desire

 

[Rhodesianjess]

A good read about WW1 sniping and evaluation of tactics including mad minute effectiveness is A Rifleman Went To War by H W McBride. An American who joined the Canadian forces early on in the conflict.

 

[Foxyboy43]

A good read about WW1 sniping and evaluation of tactics including mad minute effectiveness is A Rifleman Went To War by H W McBride. An American who joined the Canadian forces early on in the conflict.

Yep read it thanx R. Kindle is full of similar books and at very reasonable cost - Sniper on the Eastern Front and The First Sniper War to name only two.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The whistler trophy at Camp Perry is a similar exercise. All the rounds fall into lake Erie into a closed off zone but some summer fishermen saw the splashes and did not hear the shooting so thought the fish were biting and went into it, then some began getting holes in the hulls so using an early mobile phone they called to complain and the camp commanders reply was "how are they grouping?".

 

[User00040]

A good read about WW1 sniping and evaluation of tactics including mad minute effectiveness is A Rifleman Went To War by H W McBride. An American who joined the Canadian forces early on in the conflict.

Full book here for free: Milsurps Knowledge Library - A Rifleman Went To War (by Herbert W. McBride)