Caliber decision

[March Brown]

Where have you got this lobbing idea from? I think you need to look at the ballistics of .308 before making that sweeping statement buddy. 125 gr in .308 will do anything a 130 in .270 will.

.243 is just rubbish in comparison, unless you want to shoot light bullets, if you are only ever going to shoot roe then it’ll be fine

“Lobbing” was a tongue in cheek statement. I find ballistics and it’s many, many combinations and variations complex. I like to keep things simple and functional. To my inexperienced eye, the .308 comes across as a Jack of all trades and master of none. A bit like a Kia Sportage I once had. It wasn’t as good as a big saloon for high mileage driving, it wasn’t an estate with a big boot, it wasn’t a hot hatch, it certainly wasn’t a 4x4 even though it was styled as one. I felt it was always a compromise and after 4 years was glad to see it gone. I don’t want to feel that way about my first centre fire rifle.

 

[stubear]

You're just going to get a list of peoples favourite cartridges here TBH

For a one gun shooter you cant really go wrong with .308, and the other one I really like (assuming you have no plans to tackle game beyond deer) is .25-06. Hits like a .270 but kicks like the .243.

 

[takbok]

@March Brown a 243 will be ideal for your stalking requirements, and it's more than adequate for any deer in the UK. Lots of nice 2nd hand rifles around.

 

[March Brown]

You're just going to get a list of peoples favourite cartridges here TBH

For a one gun shooter you cant really go wrong with .308, and the other one I really like (assuming you have no plans to tackle game beyond deer) is .25-06. Hits like a .270 but kicks like the .243.

Options are coming thick and fast now need to look at 25-06 now. Wish it was nice and simple. If you were to ask what kit should I get for river trout fishing, I’d say 9ft to 9ft 6in 4/5 weight rod with a floating line in either weight forward or double taper. I would be surprised if anyone said anything other than good choice. If you asked the same question about salmon tackle, the replies would be like my question on caliber choice .

 

[User00025]

Options are coming thick and fast now need to look at 25-06 now. Wish it was nice and simple. If you were to ask what kit should I get for river trout fishing, I’d say 9ft to 9ft 6in 4/5 weight rod with a floating line in either weight forward or double taper. I would be surprised if anyone said anything other than good choice. If you asked the same question about salmon tackle, the replies would be like my question on caliber choice .

Depends on size of trout river. Too big for our little 12ft wide brook..
I had a 25/06 once and I must agree with Stubear, a lovely flat shooter, plenty of power and little recoil. Used mine on the hill Red and Sika. Silly to sell it when I look at our big fields here.

 

[25 Sharps]

“Lobbing” was a tongue in cheek statement. I find ballistics and it’s many, many combinations and variations complex. I like to keep things simple and functional. To my inexperienced eye, the .308 comes across as a Jack of all trades and master of none. A bit like a Kia Sportage I once had. It wasn’t as good as a big saloon for high mileage driving, it wasn’t an estate with a big boot, it wasn’t a hot hatch, it certainly wasn’t a 4x4 even though it was styled as one. I felt it was always a compromise and after 4 years was glad to see it gone. I don’t want to feel that way about my first centre fire rifle.

What you have just described there is a .243! Not quite a predator cartridge, not quite a deer cartridge and generally, unless it’s a fast twist custom, not a target rifle. The .243 is the minimum for all deer, that makes it a compromise.

I don’t know where you have formed your opinion of .308 from but it’s seems a little bit jaded for no apparent reason.

You freely admit you’re inexperienced yet when many replies to your thread are suggesting .308 you already think you know better. Have to wonder why you took the time to a ask in the first place.

 

[gixer1]

Better still, try shooting them!

If/when lockdown lifts and you are willing to meet I would be more than happy to help, if this is of interest you can PM me.

Cheers.

Great offer! And I will extend the same offeo you so you can try an 06 and 243 in the same rifle type to really compare apples to apples.

I find the 06 has a nice slow recoil and the 243 is a more snappy but both are a joy to shoot.

the 243 will do most of what you need up here but what people say about non-lead ammo is true, if we are pushed down that road with no sensible changes it may become illegal for roe... I can’t see it happening without a fight though.

regards,
Gixer

 

[User00033]

“Lobbing” was a tongue in cheek statement. I find ballistics and it’s many, many combinations and variations complex. I like to keep things simple and functional. To my inexperienced eye, the .308 comes across as a Jack of all trades and master of none. A bit like a Kia Sportage I once had. It wasn’t as good as a big saloon for high mileage driving, it wasn’t an estate with a big boot, it wasn’t a hot hatch, it certainly wasn’t a 4x4 even though it was styled as one. I felt it was always a compromise and after 4 years was glad to see it gone. I don’t want to feel that way about my first centre fire rifle.

I wasn’t going to say anything when I first read this.

But I’ve change my mind...

You’re talking bollocks mate.

Five pages in. Make up your mind, its a bloody small roe deer you want to shoot FFS. Go buy a rifle.

 

[gixer1]

Worth noting that many of the police Scotland forces like to see (rightly or wrongly) 243 as a first CF rifle....

the sheer number of deer shot up here with 243 means it can’t be that far wrong!

 

[Mungo]

“Lobbing” was a tongue in cheek statement. I find ballistics and it’s many, many combinations and variations complex. I like to keep things simple and functional. To my inexperienced eye, the .308 comes across as a Jack of all trades and master of none. A bit like a Kia Sportage I once had. It wasn’t as good as a big saloon for high mileage driving, it wasn’t an estate with a big boot, it wasn’t a hot hatch, it certainly wasn’t a 4x4 even though it was styled as one. I felt it was always a compromise and after 4 years was glad to see it gone. I don’t want to feel that way about my first centre fire rifle.

??

Having shot roe, fallow, sika and red with a .308, at ranges from 10m to 280m, in habitats from lowland woodland and arable farmland to Sitka spruce plantations and open moor, I would say with complete conviction that the only problems I’ve ever encountered have been entirely of my own creation.

If you want to shoot something smaller than a roe deer, bigger than a red deer, or further away than 300m, there may be better options. But as a general purpose UK stalking cartridge, it is about perfect.

As are all the other common UK large deer legal calibres.

You really could pick anything between .243 and .30-06 entirely at random and it would make absolutely no difference at all to the outcome or enjoyment of any of your stalking.

 

[Dunwaters]

Some great arguments for this that and the next caliber. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I’ve been reading the replies and had my thought of getting a .243 confirmed, then thought perhaps I should consider a 6.5x55 etc. then I swayed to the .270 and the .308. The key points that seem to be coming through are practice practice practice. There is no substitute for accuracy. Get a gun that feels good, I get this exactly, when I was looking for my shotgun I was told try as many as you can, you’ll pick one up and know it’s right for you. This was indeed the case.

I am more inclined towards a gun that fires a bullet at the target (.243, .270) than one that lobs a bullet at the target (.308, etc) less room for error on my part . So I’m going to wait till Tricky lets the gun shops open and go window shopping, the best kind

Theres very very little real world difference in trajectory between the various calibers, .308, .270, and .243 are within a few fractions of an inch of each other if you compare the mid range bullet weights, 150, 130, and 90 grain.

 

[Selous]

Worth noting that many of the police Scotland forces like to see (rightly or wrongly) 243 as a first CF rifle....

the sheer number of deer shot up here with 243 means it can’t be that far wrong!

One can only assume that the reason for the 243 as a first rifle is almost certainly to limit the effect on the FLO’s career if something were to go wrong as they had only issued the minimum calibre permitted. This is totally distinct from being the best calibre for a newbie to start with which is undoubtedly a 308 in today’s climate. All anyone has to do is shoot a steel gong at 100-200 yards and look at the reaction with a 243, 6.5 and 308 to see that the 308 hits harder than the others.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

50 gr v-max in .243? Doesn’t exist

55 blitz kings too, a very effective if messy fox bullet. I never tried the Nosler but used many weights between the BK's and 105's

There ya go

nosler do a 55 gr, that’s about as light as you’ll get unless someone brings out a 50 gr lead free.

Mr @Grandhubert uses them (v-max) on fox and they are messy

One can only assume that the reason for the 243 as a first rifle is almost certainly to limit the effect on the FLO’s career if something were to go wrong as they had only issued the minimum calibre permitted. This is totally distinct from being the best calibre for a newbie to start with which is undoubtedly a 308 in today’s climate. All anyone has to do is shoot a steel gong at 100-200 yards and look at the reaction with a 243, 6.5 and 308 to see that the 308 hits harder than the others.

I think there's some truth in that, however I think it has quite a bit to do with the tables in HOG stating cartridge and quarry. ie 243 is the smallest for Deer and nearly the largest for fox. So they encourage the applicant to have that.
I started out with 308 was later made to change to 243 (because of fox) and since have owned/used many many more.

My advice to my younger self would be get a 6.5 (55 in my case). As the choice of bullet types to suit most quarry, the pleasant recoil, secondhand rifle availability, should be future proof re any lead ban/requirements. Although for Roe in Scotland I might just forgo that and go with a fast twist 223.

 

[gixer1]

One can only assume that the reason for the 243 as a first rifle is almost certainly to limit the effect on the FLO’s career if something were to go wrong as they had only issued the minimum calibre permitted. This is totally distinct from being the best calibre for a newbie to start with which is undoubtedly a 308 in today’s climate. All anyone has to do is shoot a steel gong at 100-200 yards and look at the reaction with a 243, 6.5 and 308 to see that the 308 hits harder than the others.

Sorry, but to say 308 is the “best” caliber is clearly not the case. There are number outs calibers that will fit the OP’s requirement.

if you’re going .30cal, buy the proper one, not the one people buy their wives to keep them happy....

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Sorry, but to say 308 is the “best” caliber is clearly not the case. There are number outs calibers that will fit the OP’s requirement.

if you’re going .30cal, buy the proper one, not the one people buy their wives to keep them happy....

It's ok he said calibre. So you can pick the cartridge to fire it 30-06 anyone?

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Sorry, but to say 308 is the “best” caliber is clearly not the case. There are number outs calibers that will fit the OP’s requirement.

if you’re going .30cal, buy the proper one, not the one people buy their wives to keep them happy....

I'm not sure anyone said any of these calibres are the 'best', however it is a simple fact that a .308 will hit harder than a .243. As someone that runs a 300 WSM maybe I should start floating that as an idea, its flatter shooting, hits harder and ive never had a runner.... all we are saying is the .308 is a versatile cartridge that would fit the OPs requirements well, it is mild recoiling, easy to be accurate with, will give versatility with lead and non lead and will hit a deer hard with minimal meat damage, its the minimum I would regularly use for an all round rifle personally.

Ben

 

[User00025]

Open hill 25/06
Woodland 6.5x54 MS 160gr.
Can't beat that combo, unless 7x57 for all round. Anything in this country 6.5 X 54 and 7x 57, these will do you for elephants as well if there's any on the loose.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I'm not sure anyone said any of these calibres are the 'best', however it is a simple fact that a .308 will hit harder than a .243. As someone that runs a 300 WSM maybe I should start floating that as an idea, its flatter shooting, hits harder and ive never had a runner.... all we are saying is the .308 is a versatile cartridge that would fit the OPs requirements well, it is mild recoiling, easy to be accurate with, will give versatility with lead and non lead and will hit a deer hard with minimal meat damage, its the minimum I would regularly use for an all round rifle personally.

Ben

The 30-06 is even more versatile especially if you reload. I mean where do you stop?
The unfortunate thing is that common sense is not necessarily applied by FLD’s.
They get an idea/policy in their heads and as a new/prospective FAC holder. You don’t always get the choice. They certainly tried to push me and far more recently friends into a particular cartridge choice.
So Forces’s might be a bit more sensible, but I would not hold my breath.

 

[Selous]

if you’re going .30cal, buy the proper one, not the one people buy their wives to keep them happy....

 

[MrD50]

I agree with everything that has been said above and am very interested in peoples views on the impact of the possible non lead legislation on the .243. The research I have done suggest a lighter bullet for calibre for non lead which could open a can of worms for the .243. I currently use a .243 for Roe, Fallow, and Muntjac. I have just been asked by TVP to renew my shotgun and Firearms certificates 1 year early to help with their admin, I was sorely tempted to add a .308 or 6.5X55 Swede to future proof myself. The feedback I got from my stalking friends was as stated above, they are not going to write off the most popular deer stalking calibre overnight, so I left my ticket as is, if the worse comes to worse I shall have to put in for a variation.