Ridiculous rates for ammunition will end recreational shooting

[The deer man]

Until 'non-lead factory ammo only' works it's way into your shooting lease/contract

Talking of myths, this is another.

I never thought I'd say this a year ago, when we were struggling with accuracy testing copper bullets (mainly Hornady and Barnes) that would still be effective out to 300 metres, but there is no question since changing to Fox bullets and Yew Tree the results have been exceptional and a huge relief.

Both these bullet brands are very accurate in what we've loaded for (6.5x55, 7mm-08, 308, 270) and have proven terminal ballistics that have accounted for dozens of deer since August '21.

Bullet impact sound is different, if that's important to anybody!

Reaction to shot, we can't tell the difference. If they run there is no discernible difference to lead core bullets and how far that might be. Neck/head shot is terminal and quick!

Wound channel shows less bruising on entry, heart/lungs are destroyed, bullet exit is cleaner with less destruction and again less bruising unless a rib/bone is hit which can be expected.

I would suggest to anybody who is in doubt to get these new brands (Fox and Yew Tree) and go hunting, you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[The deer man]

It's times like these that I feel grateful for being at the top of my year group in chemistry. That and holding calibres that will run on black powder! I'd love to use a front stuffer for stalking using my own powder and my own bullets, it would be a great laugh.

I doubt it will come to that, but things sure are getting expensive. How competition shooters will cope I don't know?

Target shooters, Police, Army will be exempt from using copper ammo, it's only the ramaining 1'ish% of users who will be affected and that's hunters.

 

[griff]

I was always sceptical of using copper after using the original Barnes X (blue) in my 25-06, but like all things in life, we move on.
Loved A-max for deer and V-max for anything else, but having been forced into all copper, I can honestly say that if the option to return to lead arose I would still go with copper.
Just gives a better carcass.

 

[User00040]

Talking of myths, this is another.

Reality here in Scotland, land of the unicorn!

 

[308tikka]

Reality here in Scotland, land of the unicorn!

@caberslash .... how does this get policed?

If given to employees, fair enough, but easy enough to stick a barnes into a sako case with the correct colour primer, I would presume.

Maybe Im missing something. Perhaps the covid shopping police were diverted from ammo inspection duties !?

 

[User00040]

@caberslash .... how does this get policed?

No comment...

 

[shakey jake]

Target shooters, Police, Army will be exempt from using copper ammo, it's only the ramaining 1'ish% of users who will be affected and that's hunters.

why army?

 

[Leupsak]

The dealer I use (one of the biggest in the country) has no testing apparatus that will detect a carcass having been shot with lead or copper nor do the other two dealers I know. This is just scaremongering and as already said a "myth".

What dealers may ask you to do as we have done for ours is sign a declaration that all deer will be shot using non-toxic bullets but there is no way of proving it either way especially if it's a head shot.

Scanners are in use in commercial processing plants, if only to identify foreign bodies and machinery fragments, maybe not at all game dealers but certainly any professional butcher is going to scan the wound channel so they can glean as much useable meat as possible, we do it all the time. A fragment of lead discovered in tissue or bone is easy to recover and identify raising questions regarding carcass provenance and declaration of the stalker. I know if lead was to be traced back to me i would lose my job.

 

[JTO]

Will venison be rejected if the scanners pick up historical lead 'shot'?

 

[8x57]

Target shooters, Police, Army will be exempt from using copper ammo, it's only the ramaining 1'ish% of users who will be affected and that's hunters.

If you mean that target shooters, the military and the police will be exempt from the proposed European Union ban on lead ammunition which will in all probability also be adopted in the U.K. at some time in the future, I'm afraid that you have been misinformed. No such exemptions are proposed in the legislation and the military are already developing and adopting non lead ammunition. All shooters will be affected.

 

[bally]

The dealer I use (one of the biggest in the country) has no testing apparatus that will detect a carcass having been shot with lead or copper nor do the other two dealers I know. This is just scaremongering and as already said a "myth".

What dealers may ask you to do as we have done for ours is sign a declaration that all deer will be shot using non-toxic bullets but there is no way of proving it either way especially if it's a head shot.

Some ranges have stopped the use of copper only ammo as they are prone too ricochet so checking zero could be a issue.

 

[Bowland blades]

Absolutely no problems with Barnes ttsx copper 6.5mm ! 100 grain on reds good balanced performance ( ie not breaking up just turns into a palm tree with 3 branches 100% weight retention unless it looses a branch to bone " rare " at shorter ranges ) yet will still expand out passed 300 after doing both shoulder on red stags just fine !
This is performance we have been seeking for many decades !
The way I see it there is but one downfall ( copper bullets are about 3-4 times more expensive) its still the cheapest bit of the hunt , unless you walk out your front gate for your hunt and get free barrels fitting

I don't understand why we want deer bullets to fragment like varmint bullets , the purpose of a bullet is to kill cleanly ( hopefully pop out tge other side and leave a good blood trail in case the beast runs into cover during the death rush )

 

[Leupsak]

Will venison be rejected if the scanners pick up historical lead 'shot'?

Scar tissue is removed during processing, I would scan too but suppose that’s down to the competence of the butcher and quality of the product.
Bullet path is the usual area checked unless injury, abscess or scar tissue suggests investigation. I find .22LR bullets crop up more than lead shot.

 

[The deer man]

Absolutely no problems with Barnes ttsx copper 6.5mm ! 100 grain on reds good balanced performance ( ie not breaking up just turns into a palm tree with 3 branches 100% weight retention unless it looses a branch to bone " rare " at shorter ranges ) yet will still expand out passed 300 after doing both shoulder on red stags just fine !
This is performance we have been seeking for many decades !
The way I see it there is but one downfall ( copper bullets are about 3-4 times more expensive) its still the cheapest bit of the hunt , unless you walk out your front gate for your hunt and get free barrels fitting

I don't understand why we want deer bullets to fragment like varmint bullets , the purpose of a bullet is to kill cleanly ( hopefully pop out tge other side and leave a good blood trail in case the beast runs into cover during the death rush )

Is that a 6.5 Creedmoor?

Copper bullets and ammunition is definitely not 3/4 times more expensive in fact probably not even double.

 

[The deer man]

Price comparison from a typical bullet I use in 7mm-08 and more or less the same for 6.5x55, 308 and 270...

Hornady ELD-X 7mm (.254) 150Grn (100 Pack) £65 = £32.50 (x50) which are what I used to use. Now using Yew Tree at £55, Fox at £50.50, Peregrine are £52, all for (x50).

This per bullet equates to:-
Hornady = £0.65p
Yew Tree = £1.10p
Fox = £1.01p
Peregrine = £1.04p

That's £0.36p to £0.45p a round more expensive than traditional lead core bullets. That is not three or four times more expensive, in fact it's not even double! Are we really saying the end is nigh for recreational stalking because each deer shot costs and extra 36p to 45p more?!

Loaded ammunition equates very similarly. Copper ammunition has become expensive but we shouldn't forget traditional lead has also gone up considerably too.

 

[Leec6.5]

The price of ammunition is irrelevant!

If a bullet cost me £5 its not going to stop me stalking!

Because i can cover my cost by selling the carcass

If you can’t afford it, dont do it its as simple as that, no point moaning about it.

If people want to waste bullets by shooting targets thats their issue, i only punch paper once the bullet doesn’t go where i aim.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The price of ammunition is irrelevant!

If a bullet cost me £5 its not going to stop me stalking!

Because i can cover my cost by selling the carcass

If you can’t afford it, dont do it its as simple as that, no point moaning about it.

If people want to waste bullets by shooting targets thats their issue, i only punch paper once the bullet doesn’t go where i aim.

If people did not "waste" bullets shooting at targets your pocketful per year would be costing you a lot more. We are all in this game together, or not?

 

[Leec6.5]

If people did not "waste" bullets shooting at targets your pocketful per year would be costing you a lot more. We are all in this game together, or not?

My pocket full is well over 100 this year so far, the price of ammunition is going to continue to rise regardless of what we all think!

Best we all get used to it.

 

[User00040]

My pocket full is well over 100 this year so far, the price of ammunition is going to continue to rise regardless of what we all think!

Best we all get used to it.

So you'd be happy to pay £100 per round?

Exclusionist mentalities are part of the problem, if not enough people shoot/stalk, not enough people will care when efforts are made by the politicians to curtail fieldsports.

In fact, if enough people are ignorant enough to be swayed by the anti's, they lobby politicians to enact laws and legislations which are not in our best interest and be potentially damaging to the countryside.

Look at Wild Justice, trophy import ban etc.

Has it entered you mind that high ammo and component prices are a form of de-facto gun control to discourage recreational shooting?

Or do you think it's better to exclude everyone who can't meet the ever rising barriers to entry?

 

[Liveonce]

Ammunition and cartridges are a volume game kill the volume and prices will rocket up and don’t think that will not apply to reloading components.