Franchi Matt
Well-Known Member
An awful thought regardless of location
Hunting Accidents - Human Factors
- Thread starter Heym SR20
- Start date
TH4
Well-Known Member
Or armed trespass but we were just talking trespass
Had the pleasure of seeing the effect of private security dealing with antis on a grouse moor who were hired on the off chance due to location and owner having a intense dislike and deep pockets, antis had a very bad day and think they called for the police. First thing that got it were they guys filming absolute class and no phone cameras then.
Another day a anti spat on a dog handler bad move another very entertaining day with arrests and the odd ****ting
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
There is the problem with mandatory wearing of blaze orange in that there can be a case of "there`s is no orange that I can see so it is safe to shoot" and the target is actually hunter without the orange.
dobber
Well-Known Member
Or as in my case, color blind. I can pick out a deers ear at decent distance, but someone wearing hunter orange 150 yards away with the back drop of bush, can't see them till they move. (side note, I never, ever use the scope to "check" always the bino's)
Apparently some research in nz found pink to be more effective, bring it on
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I see where ya at bolty...hairy blokes in pink `kini`s eh.bring it on
Oh yes, closely followed by accessorising with pink stocks and the likes, got to suffer for style and safety
Some interesting thoughts here, I personally think a significant factor in the lower rates in the UK is that people are far more mindful about what they're shooting at, the direction they're shooting in, and of course most people don't share land with other shooters (as has been mentioned).
Shooting as a sport is already under threat, and no shooter wishes to add to the agenda many current MPs have, which is that guns are dangerous and need to be controlled even further - with a view of doing away with the field sports we all love.
Shooting as a sport is already under threat, and no shooter wishes to add to the agenda many current MPs have, which is that guns are dangerous and need to be controlled even further - with a view of doing away with the field sports we all love.
baguio
Well-Known Member
I would think that the main reason is that we're more careful and has very little to do with the number of people on the ground. We have public footpaths all over our country. We shoot on lots of very public land and the public ignore signs warning them that shooting is in progress. Antis deliberately put themselves in harms way but rarely does anyone get shot. That's not entirely down to luck!
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
The French method of hunting is likely part of the problem!
I owned a property in the Dordogne for the last decade and every wood around there is hunted, some with high seats, most on foot and many driven.
What I did notice is that in a large wood that might stretch for miles the ownership changes without any boundary and the hunting rights (or truffle rights) change, so you could be in ‘your’ bit of the wood, shooting deer and the owner of the next door wood could be doing the same, likely without any knowledge of each other.
And if you take the ‘forestry as a backstop’ debate as a case in point, there is very little to stop a round that misses its target as these are often old French oak woodlands.
Add to that driven shoots on beautifully undulating fields and it’s a recipe for disaster.
No form is shooting is 100% safe but I find that the stalkers I come across over here are typically very safe.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
I have used the location tool in WhatsApp groups previously to overcome this issue.An awful thought regardless of location
Everyone who stalks is well aware that there are people everywhere.
I think the greatest risk here is actually people coming from elsewhere who aren’t aware of how crowded the island is, and how free our access laws are. I’ve only ever stalked with one British person who was cavalier about backstops, while I’ve almost always had to remind North Americans about it. In general, I’ve found British stalkers to be excessively cautious about backstops, in a way that is conspicuously different to what I grew up with in Southern Africa. I’ve had to change my own perception of what’s acceptable - I’m certainly far more conservative than I was when I first arrived.
We may get many things wrong, but the awareness of safe shooting really does not seem to be one of those. Given the sheer density of people here, we’d know very fast if there was a problem…
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Agree totally. But I deliberately started this post highlighting the NZ experience as there were a number of comments on other threads about how there aren’t any incidents and we are just being over cautious etc. etc.
It’s complacency that is the biggest cause of accidents.
The whole reason we have few accidents is because we are very cautious. But experience and familiarity often leads to complacency.
Add in pressure to hit culls, add in being paid on a per cull basis, add in tiredness because you are out all hours trying to get a cull done and somebody is bellyaching at you because they wanted the trees planted and this all combines so that white patch on the edge of woods is the arse of a deer and in the last light on a rainy evening you see through the scope the body of a deer.
Only to then see the person stand up, and the white patch is her shirt hanging out below her brown coat.
Fortunately you haven’t squeezed the trigger.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I remember this film. The Shooting Party......all the rules and still a death by gun in the field.
Autumn, 1913: on the eve of the Great War, a small party of lords and ladies gather at the Hertfordshire estate of Sir Randolph Nettleby. A code of propriety governs all: dress, breakfast, relations with the estate's peasants, courtship, shooting, adultery. Lionel Stephens, who is courting Sir Randolph's daughter, gets into a shooting competition with Lord Gilbert Hartlip; Lord Gilbert's wife carries on discreet affairs; a pamphleteer circles the estate calling for no more killing, and Sir Robert's grandson hopes to protect a wild duck he's befriended. A way of life is ending: Lord Gilbert's violation of the gentlemen's code suggests internal rot as the real world presses in.
Autumn, 1913: on the eve of the Great War, a small party of lords and ladies gather at the Hertfordshire estate of Sir Randolph Nettleby. A code of propriety governs all: dress, breakfast, relations with the estate's peasants, courtship, shooting, adultery. Lionel Stephens, who is courting Sir Randolph's daughter, gets into a shooting competition with Lord Gilbert Hartlip; Lord Gilbert's wife carries on discreet affairs; a pamphleteer circles the estate calling for no more killing, and Sir Robert's grandson hopes to protect a wild duck he's befriended. A way of life is ending: Lord Gilbert's violation of the gentlemen's code suggests internal rot as the real world presses in.
Whilst I have to acknowledge that there are more incidents here than the UK and that I haven’t read the links in the OP it also would be interesting to look at the rate of accidents compared to the percentage of hunters per capita.
For some context see the link at the bottom for the 2017 Mountain Safety Council report about hunter injuries. “1% of big game hunting injuries involve a firearm”.
Not saying the we have the perfect record by any means but to pat yourselves on the back and say “look at such and such a country compared to us” seems a bit naive. What I do find interesting is that we have to attend a course and pass a hunter safety exam before we are granted a FAL, not something I had to do in the UK. This safety course came under review in 2015/16 after it was decided by the police that the training wasn’t up to scratch and was reviewed and replaced following hunter deaths ().
issuu.com
For some context see the link at the bottom for the 2017 Mountain Safety Council report about hunter injuries. “1% of big game hunting injuries involve a firearm”.
Not saying the we have the perfect record by any means but to pat yourselves on the back and say “look at such and such a country compared to us” seems a bit naive. What I do find interesting is that we have to attend a course and pass a hunter safety exam before we are granted a FAL, not something I had to do in the UK. This safety course came under review in 2015/16 after it was decided by the police that the training wasn’t up to scratch and was reviewed and replaced following hunter deaths ().
A Hunter's tale
Developed by the New Zealand Mountain Safety Council (MSC) A Hunter's Tale represents the most comprehensive exploration of hunting participation and incidents in New Zealand. Building on the success of There and Back (2016) this publication represents the first in a series of comprehensive...
In Canada: to buy a firearm you take an 8 hour course on handling and functioning of firearms, another 8 for pistols. To hunt you need a hunter education course about a daylong.involves game identification and safe shooting.
None of these involve actually firing a gun. You do get to handle deactivated ones.
Most people learn to really shoot from a freind. Not much formal shooting training.
There are very few firearm accidents. Perhaps a death in five years. We do have a huge country with a small population. Our local range has no one living for over 5 miles down range. The blaze orange requirement was reduced to only a vest several years ago with no change in accident rates
Note; Britain has a training ground near me. They have about 1500 sq miles of empty space. Prince Harry trained there.
None of these involve actually firing a gun. You do get to handle deactivated ones.
Most people learn to really shoot from a freind. Not much formal shooting training.
There are very few firearm accidents. Perhaps a death in five years. We do have a huge country with a small population. Our local range has no one living for over 5 miles down range. The blaze orange requirement was reduced to only a vest several years ago with no change in accident rates
Note; Britain has a training ground near me. They have about 1500 sq miles of empty space. Prince Harry trained there.
Wish you'd kept him once he was trained.
You just don’t like contractors of large scale culling
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
They have their place, but I do think contractors are a very very poor substitute for full or part time staff whether its in Forestry, Health Service, Business, Agriculture, Science or Academia.You just don’t like contractors of large scale culling
Abd I struggle to see how full time deer culling contractors can actually make a living. I suspect most are pretty much just about breaking even once they take in the true costs involved of vehicles, fuel, kit and clothing, accomodation etc. i suspect they are well below min wage levek with no benefits.
Meanwhile the houses that used to accomodate staff are now Air BnBs.
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