243 or 6.5C

[Bowland blades]

Got to say There is a large difference in 6.5 creed and 243 win . If you disagree try finding 55 grain bullets in 6.5mm
No Axe to grind its just stupid to not recognise the difference . Shot 243 win for many years , still would today if it wasn't time for a new barrel and i went 260 ( mostly i use 100 grain barnes TTSX and it does a very -Very good job ! I recon on getting an exit wound "practically" every time up to 400 yards on stags ( when broadside). The 243 did used to stay in the cavity a fair bit but then we are talking 100 grain lead and down . I have killed Rutting Sika Stags on the spot or without more than a very shot death rush and it is a fantastic deer and fox long range crow killer.
I think its quite likely i will purchase a modern twist 243 win when the none toxic market is better supplied for it . I would not however trust promises about dropping the bullet weights in Scotland until its actually done because we must all know how much the MP's on both sides of the border fail to deliver on promises made right ?

 

[cjm1066]

The 243 was designed as a varmit/deer cartridge, it's killed 1,000s of deer but even with lead requires the right bullet, the 105g only works in some rifles.

6.5 is a deer cartridge, the "C" is for shorter actions. It's undoubtedly the better choice if buying new today - and is likely to displace the 243 until another wonder cartridge is introduced with great marketing.

Perhaps the WSM failed due to poor marketing

 

[ValleyPursuits]

Buy a 2023 Tikka .243 with the 1:8 twist and the copper issue is solved.

 

[User00035]

If your police force will allow you to have a .308 for your first rifle then get one. Will knock over all deer in the UK even if you have to drop down in bullet weight with the advent of copper.

If that is going to prove difficult then go for a 6.5 CM or even the good old 6.5 x 55 Swede.

Again with the advent of copper the .243 may we’ll be relegated to a foxing or Muntjac only round.

My first stalking rifle 30 years ago was a .308 and I've still got one. Floors everything. Meat damage is not severe with the right bullets. You don't need to home-load - no cartridge is more widely available in such great variety off the shelf, and the average stalker will probably wear out before the barrel will. And at the end of the day, whatever cartridge you choose, all the UK deer-legal chamberings, zeroed correctly will strike a 4" kill zone and offer point and shoot capability to 200 yards. What more do you want? I've never found the need to change my .308. It just works.

 

[Scotty99]

My first stalking rifle 30 years ago was a .308 and I've still got one. Floors everything. Meat damage is not severe with the right bullets. You don't need to home-load - no cartridge is more widely available in such great variety off the shelf, and the average stalker will probably wear out before the barrel will. And at the end of the day, whatever cartridge you choose, all the UK deer-legal chamberings, zeroed correctly will strike a 4" kill zone and offer point and shoot capability to 200 yards. What more do you want? I've never found the need to change my .308. It just works.

Agree. I’ve always had a .308 in my cabinet as my main go to stalking rifle. The current one is a Mauser M12. It has all the advantages you list above plus it’s a very forgiving round regarding barrel length and will shoot very accurately out of a 20 inch barrel and with a moderator added makes it ideal for woodland stalking, while still having the knock down power at distance for hill stalking.

 

[User00035]

Agree. I’ve always had a .308 in my cabinet as my main go to stalking rifle. The current one is a Mauser M12. It has all the advantages you list above plus it’s a very forgiving round regarding barrel length and will shoot very accurately out of a 20 inch barrel and with a moderator added makes it ideal for woodland stalking, while still having the knock down power at distance for hill stalking.

I have an M595. I love it because it's so light and pointy and has proved itself accurate enough to hold its own against shooters with proper target rifles on 300 yard ranges. It isn't threaded for a mod, though every dealer who sees it tries to talk me into getting it done. But I don't want to because I like it light and balanced and I like having the iron sites intact. Barks a bit but I'm only firing one or two shots per stalk. And despite being light, I hardly notice the recoil because it fits me so well.
I can't think of another rifle or cartridge I'd replace it with. Except possible a Schultz and Larsen, but that would cost four times what I paid for the Tikka and wouldn't shoot any better.

 

[jon15]

I have owned or currently own: 243, 25-06, 308, 270. Shoot about 50-75 deer a year, mainly fallow with some muntjac and a few lowland reds. I also shoot plenty of foxes, my go to rifle is a 243 every time. I still have a 270 so am future proofed for copper, but I’m not sure it will come through as everyone thinks and I suspect they will make some great 243 stuff by then anyway. Choose the one that gives you the most confidence, there is no wrong calibre, it’s where you put the bullet! Happy stalking.

 

[sealsun]

Thank you for all your inputs into this thread. I’ve read everyones comments and have decided to go for the 6.5 cm on the basis that yes a 243 would do everything I need at the moment but if cooper does come in there is a chance it won’t. Where as the 6.5 cm will regardless.

 

[JockStalk]

Thank you for all your inputs into this thread. I’ve read everyones comments and have decided to go for the 6.5 cm on the basis that yes a 243 would do everything I need at the moment but if cooper does come in there is a chance it won’t. Where as the 6.5 cm will regardless.

Decision made. Just the man-bun, goatee and crushed velvet smoking jacket to sort out

 

[kenbro]

6.5CM does out of the box what takes a lot of effort to achieve from a 243. Around 140gr from a 6.5CM will not loose energy as fast as a 80-100gr 243. Yes the 243 works but is very often marginal in twist rate for heavier bullets or copper bullets.
The 243 would be great for fox and smaller deer where one can use 80-90gr bullets.... then again the 6.5CM can do that as well.
I have both, if going out and not knowing where the day will take me I grab the 308 or 6.5CM and leave the 243 at home.
edi

Not too long before 80 grain bullets UK legal for all deer species.
Ken.

 

[MarinePMI]

Got to say There is a large difference in 6.5 creed and 243 win . If you disagree try finding 55 grain bullets in 6.5mm
No Axe to grind its just stupid to not recognise the difference . Shot 243 win for many years , still would today if it wasn't time for a new barrel and i went 260 ( mostly i use 100 grain barnes TTSX and it does a very -Very good job ! I recon on getting an exit wound "practically" every time up to 400 yards on stags ( when broadside). The 243 did used to stay in the cavity a fair bit but then we are talking 100 grain lead and down . I have killed Rutting Sika Stags on the spot or without more than a very shot death rush and it is a fantastic deer and fox long range crow killer.
I think its quite likely i will purchase a modern twist 243 win when the none toxic market is better supplied for it . I would not however trust promises about dropping the bullet weights in Scotland until its actually done because we must all know how much the MP's on both sides of the border fail to deliver on promises made right ?

Honestly, a fast twist 243 is a bit of a waste. If you're wanting that, just get a 6mm Creedmoor and be done with it. It comes as a fast twist, and brass/ammo is getting fairly common these days.

 

[TringSaint]

I’m looking at buying my first stalking rifle and can’t decide should I get a 243 or 6.5C? So I thought why not ask you guys with a hell mo experience than me.

What are the advantages and disadvantages off each?

Thanks
Stuart

And don’t forget the other less fancy 6.5 that has been doing the job for a hundred years or more.
243 = supremely accurate but affected by wind and can be explosive in smaller deer.
6.5x55 = low recoil but hits hard but makes less damage than the 243. Not as pinpoint accurate as the 243 but not shabby by any standards.

 

[Bowland blades]

Honestly, a fast twist 243 is a bit of a waste. If you're wanting that, just get a 6mm Creedmoor and be done with it. It comes as a fast twist, and brass/ammo is getting fairly common these days.

Think your missing the point i was making . However 243 win is way more available and has from what i hear a lot lower round life , i looked at the 22 creed for myself and that was truly frightening
the creed in general has only the advantage of better handling the extra long bullets over the 243, 260 rem, 7-08 etc . However this isn't actually an advantage at all to the average deer hunter over the 308 class ie 243, 260 . The 260 will easy take 120 grain TTSX and that is plenty big enough for deer ( indeed i mainly use 100 in the 260 ( 6.5mm) . It should be remembered that the 6mm creed has none of that benefit as anyone looking for a 6mm would find a 243 its equal or better , when extra long bullets are not required . Twist rate i doubt either in a modern 1-8 twist will very very likely blow up 55 and 58 grain jacketed lead rounds in flight ( this is something for the purchaser to consider ) . End of the day the actual Ban on using lead is going to come way later than the sale of it ! Why ? Because compensation was a lot when the knee jerk that was Hungerford happened . Not only on the Auto rifles but lots of pistol ammo ( much of which had been filled with sand rather than powder and topped with a home cast bullet).
I have had a lot of time in with the 243 win its a brilliant deer & Vermin rifle that's been in the top 6 globally for longer than 90% of this forum have been alive - its going no place so long as 90 grain copper is allowed here. Its very, very likely i will re -add one personally .
BTW i kill most of my deer now with a 260 rem 100 grain TTSX . The expectation is it will bust through both shoulders at up to 400 pretty reliably when required to do so , really cant see a slightly lighter ( yet slightly faster ) 243 in an 80 grain not doing the same but with less recoil ( hence easier to spot the strike ) and still be good lamping foxes and long range crow bashing , without much of a smack in the shoulder so you can see your strikes.
The 100 grain TTSX 6.5 is about as long as a 120 grain lead 6.5 mm ( brand and design subjective ) The lightest lead in 6.5 mm you can actually get is realistically 95 grain / 100 grain. I use quite a few Sierra varmint they break up very -very well ( which is a plus foxing or crow bashing)

 

[Sonicdmb73]

End of the day the actual Ban on using lead is going to come way later than the sale of it ! Why ? Because compensation was a lot when the knee jerk that was Hungerford happened . Not only on the Auto rifles but lots of pistol ammo ( much of which had been filled with sand rather than powder and topped with a home cast bullet).

I honestly don’t think this is relevant. They are not going to compensate anyone for firearms. Not in the way they did after Hungerford or Dunblane. The way it’s looking is that smaller ie 223/5.56 bullets are going to be exempt. The 243 is going to be left with a few bullets that might work in your rifle.
It’s more likely that we collectively will stop buying/sell on the 6mm rifles and buy 6.5mm upwards.
The Government will likely aim so that they don’t have to pay us anything.

Personally my advice to my younger self would be get a 6.5, I have been through many calibre/cartridges over the years. I loved my 243’s but I have no intention of replacing it in my cabinet now.
I would base the advice partly on what a friend told me years ago and it holds true now. Look at the ammunition available locally and see what variety in each cartridge is. Then find a rifle you like in that chambering, because you are likely to find something it will shoot well. From the ammunition choices on the shelf.

 

[Bowland blades]

I honestly don’t think this is relevant. They are not going to compensate anyone for firearms. Not in the way they did after Hungerford or Dunblane. The way it’s looking is that smaller ie 223/5.56 bullets are going to be exempt. The 243 is going to be left with a few bullets that might work in your rifle.
It’s more likely that we collectively will stop buying/sell on the 6mm rifles and buy 6.5mm upwards.
The Government will likely aim so that they don’t have to pay us anything.

Personally my advice to my younger self would be get a 6.5, I have been through many calibre/cartridges over the years. I loved my 243’s but I have no intention of replacing it in my cabinet now.
I would base the advice partly on what a friend told me years ago and it holds true now. Look at the ammunition available locally and see what variety in each cartridge is. Then find a rifle you like in that chambering, because you are likely to find something it will shoot well. From the ammunition choices on the shelf.

243 win is just fine using copper 80 grain . Mate of mine , head stalker on a massive Scottish estate has been using his foxing rifle of the last few months as his 270 was having issues . Personally i am a big fan of the 243 win and i have shot one for many years , swapped out the barrel for a 260 rem during lockdown yet i mainly shoot 100 grain TTSX copper 6.5mm bullets . Its taken a lot of reds and also CWD, Muntjac , Roe . To be honest i can see myself getting another 243 and something like the 308 as i also liked the thirty i had previous . The 6.5 does however cover over the 243 top weight range and can reach pretty much into 308 common weight bullets with better SD making up for the heavy ( over 140 lead ) range. 223 is picking up the small species deer , crow and fox etc
The only thing a creed can do over a 260 is run longer bullets in a 308 class action but a 260 can get a tad more velocity and in a 30-06 class action it can run the longest of 6.5 bullets .
They all kill em though ! Dont write off the 243 win it only needed that legislation in Scotland and it now has it in place

 

[TringSaint]

I shoot 80gn 243 and 120gn 6.5x55.
Both excellent at stopping deer, although 6.5 is less destructive and better if windy.

 

[rem708cdl]

Honestly, a fast twist 243 is a bit of a waste. If you're wanting that, just get a 6mm Creedmoor and be done with it. It comes as a fast twist, and brass/ammo is getting fairly common these days.

Maybe folks just like what they have got. The 243 has been fine and will still be fine in the future. When the next wonder chambering comes along all the creedmore crew will be something else supporters. Marketing is so intense these days and some people are easily pulled in.

 

[Bowland blades]

I honestly don’t think this is relevant. They are not going to compensate anyone for firearms. Not in the way they did after Hungerford or Dunblane. The way it’s looking is that smaller ie 223/5.56 bullets are going to be exempt. The 243 is going to be left with a few bullets that might work in your rifle.
It’s more likely that we collectively will stop buying/sell on the 6mm rifles and buy 6.5mm upwards.
The Government will likely aim so that they don’t have to pay us anything.

Personally my advice to my younger self would be get a 6.5, I have been through many calibre/cartridges over the years. I loved my 243’s but I have no intention of replacing it in my cabinet now.
I would base the advice partly on what a friend told me years ago and it holds true now. Look at the ammunition available locally and see what variety in each cartridge is. Then find a rifle you like in that chambering, because you are likely to find something it will shoot well. From the ammunition choices on the shelf.

Thing is Even government have legal duty in these matters , No government wants to be seen loose in court ever

 

[User00035]

Maybe folks just like what they have got. The 243 has been fine and will still be fine in the future. When the next wonder chambering comes along all the creedmore crew will be something else supporters. Marketing is so intense these days and some people are easily pulled in.

Which is why I've never felt the need to replace my .308. It works.

 

[Bowland blades]

Which is why I've never felt the need to replace my .308. It works.

As does the 223 and both are the easiest to obtain internationally and at home and easiest to find factory ammo for . more and more folks are going towards factory and many venues and employers demand it . The differences in deer cartridges is only really important past say 300 yards or further . Yet most dont or cannot shoot that far