Do some research Starting with right here in the UK , only reason we dont have Roe along with CWD , Muntjac in England /Wales like Scotland is the vociferous but less experienced majority243 or 6.5C
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Do some research Starting with right here in the UK , only reason we dont have Roe along with CWD , Muntjac in England /Wales like Scotland is the vociferous but less experienced majority
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Is that in reply to my post?
I know full well what a 243 can do I shot one for years. However it doesn’t change the fact that it was borderline legal with regards to deer ammunition with lead core. Add a requirement for non lead, weight limits and power limits. You are going to need to change the law (in Scotland at the least) and quite possibly go with a faster twist as standard. To get back the versatility that it currently has.
The 6.5 cartridges give what (mostly) the 243 does but they do it now.
I’m of the opinion that the 243 will be marginalised by the likes of the 6.5CM. Then supply or the lack of will start to do the rest.
been in the top ten globally since 1950 ish ? Its going no place , small chance it might drop out of the top ten but i have to say a good friend of mine is out with 80 grain copper ( authorised letter sent to the factor) killing reds just fine !
In so many respects its built for copper - fast! , long for caliber ( tends to mean low drag and deep penetration) and of course lower recoil , giving fast 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc shots when culling . Most 243 are pretty worn in the barrel after 1000-1500 shots even when well cared for and there are going to be going cheap if some folks believe its no longer " enough gun"
Cumbrian 1
Well-Known Member
If you reload 6XC if not .243 win, get one with a fast twist and you’ll be able to handle copper.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
It matters not what the position globally is (except perhaps if you’re selling cheap auction bought rifles abroad). It matters what you can buy or rather what RFD’s stock. Many a cartridge has come and gone on the strength of fashion and marketing.
ATM the CM is without doubt the darling of the marketing world.
If RFD’s stop stocking ammo or the one brand that they do doesn’t work in your rifle. Then you are going to change to something that you can get results from.
I have already seen the local RFD’s cut the variety of options in 243. The wholesale availability isn’t helping either.
It won’t matter if 243 was the best cartridge on earth. If you can’t find ammunition people won’t buy rifles and if they don’t buy rifles there’s no point stocking ammo. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and the demise of a perfectly capable hunting cartridge.
We need a change in the Law, a decent supply of ammunition and a shooting press/forums to back pedal on the 243 is becoming obsolete because of the lead ban line.
I honestly don’t think we will get it. As such I think it will be at best marginalised and at worst disappear from our gunshops.
Turnips
Well-Known Member
All I'm getting from this thread is that all the .308 owners must be out shooting deer...
243 std will run 80 grain copper . in England / Wales we do not even have to run 100 grain . The rest of the world have the 243 win in their top ten hunting rifles also .
The only was in Scotland , if it was only legal here in Scotland ? folks wouldn't buy because they would still need 100 grain , time to stop thinking the 243 win away as a UK deer rifle now
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
In Scotland there is now a draft amendment to the Deer (Firearms etc) Order 1985 to allow the minimum weight of projectile to be 80gn as opposed to 100gn and both traditional and lead free bullets of this weight can be used. No date as yet on when this will come in force. Logic would dictate Oct 21st 2023 when the close season on male deer is removed.
The Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2023
This Order amends articles 3 and 5 of the Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Order 1985.
There are some getting their knickers in knot over this giving the ability to use a 22cf with an 80gn bullet.
The changes do not affect the minimum muzzle energy and velocity requirements and I very much doubt I could get my 223 to spit the 80gn bullet out at 3150fps which gets just over 1750fps.
You could probably achieve such velocities with a 22-250. And provide the bullet is a well constructed bullet that achieves penetration required will any deer notice the difference being hit by a 224 or 243 bullet with the same energy in the same place.
They are issuing a few letters of authorisations to known culling operations for the once under weight 80 grain .In Scotland there is now a draft amendment to the Deer (Firearms etc) Order 1985 to allow the minimum weight of projectile to be 80gn as opposed to 100gn and both traditional and lead free bullets of this weight can be used. No date as yet on when this will come in force. Logic would dictate Oct 21st 2023 when the close season on male deer is removed.
The Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2023
This Order amends articles 3 and 5 of the Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Order 1985.www.legislation.gov.uk
There are some getting their knickers in knot over this giving the ability to use a 22cf with an 80gn bullet.
The changes do not affect the minimum muzzle energy and velocity requirements and I very much doubt I could get my 223 to spit the 80gn bullet out at 3150fps which gets just over 1750fps.
You could probably achieve such velocities with a 22-250. And provide the bullet is a well constructed bullet that achieves penetration required will any deer notice the difference being hit by a 224 or 243 bullet with the same energy in the same place.
kenbro
Well-Known Member
22243 Middlestead will shoot 80 grain bullets at 3300 fps.In Scotland there is now a draft amendment to the Deer (Firearms etc) Order 1985 to allow the minimum weight of projectile to be 80gn as opposed to 100gn and both traditional and lead free bullets of this weight can be used. No date as yet on when this will come in force. Logic would dictate Oct 21st 2023 when the close season on male deer is removed.
The Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2023
This Order amends articles 3 and 5 of the Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) Order 1985.
There are some getting their knickers in knot over this giving the ability to use a 22cf with an 80gn bullet.
The changes do not affect the minimum muzzle energy and velocity requirements and I very much doubt I could get my 223 to spit the 80gn bullet out at 3150fps which gets just over 1750fps.
You could probably achieve such velocities with a 22-250. And provide the bullet is a well constructed bullet that achieves penetration required will any deer notice the difference being hit by a 224 or 243 bullet with the same energy in the same place.
Ken.
i handload my own 260 rem with 100 grain ttsx at 3300 fps , its very effective indeed . if the Government turned around and said " forget none toxic guys we no longer care " I would still use the ttsx . Honestly its simply a fantastic bullet , I can only say one thing negative like steel pellets there is a faster closing fall off between great performance to dodgy expansion . The above velocity and load i wont shoot over 400 , ideally its 300 or less if you cannot guarantee to be right inside the best kill zone . 120s i am getting 2850 fps and noticeably less expansion so again despite good accuracy further i want to be 300 max . Talking large species here- Roe and other small deer ? 100 grain copper is a lot more than required and can get more messy than ideally desirable
Rusty Gate
Well-Known Member
Pretty much double the powder to feed if reloading & easily half barrel life
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Have you actually read my post?
You’re preaching to the choir. I have owned more than one 243.
Do I have to put in the dictionary definition of perceived?
It seems that yet again you’re trying to tell me I’m wrong because the 243 is capable of killing deer. When I haven’t said it isn’t. What I said is that where you used to have plenty of choice of ammunition. You now find it limited.
A recent Facebook post confirmed this. I that the RFD told a potential customer that they had no 243 and weren’t getting any more in.
This is the problem that will kill off the 243.
Restrict ammunition variety by removing lead core. Reduce demand so that the RFD doesn’t stock or limits stock. It is a self fulfilling cycle if you can’t buy ammo you might as well sell the gun. Because it is just a large paperweight without it.
Many a good cartridge has become obsolete regardless of the ability of said cartridge. The need to generate new business leads to the likes of the CM and modern marketing is even more effective than in years past. The results speak for themselves.
243 might not be finished but it will never have the market position it had when I started. I doubt it would even if they did a U turn on lead.
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
He's on some kind of mission to save the human kind from other people's opinions and experiences.
Lives one post at a time, doesn't read (or misinterprets) what others write, contradicts himself. And then gets angry if somebody points this out. Wants "to debate" on matters that others are not concerned in or there's nothing to argue.
Coming to this thread very late but for what it is worth I am/was in exactly the same boat. I did have a slot for a .243 on my FAC (based on my experience with the caliber on Highland stags a long time ago) but, because I got rattled by the situation in Scotland re 100gn Copper, I applied for and got a variation to change to a 6.5mm. Then the debate over the Swedish or a CM? Bottom line succumbed to the hype and got the 6.5CM - just seemed sensible to not have an issue going forward. Ammunition supply not been an issue with lead and copper available. That said, it is expensive to feed so I am sure I will end up self loading. Good luck with your decision making if you have not already made the choice.
Morkai
Well-Known Member
Expensive to feed with copper or lead off the shelf?
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