Knight's Stoner 1 (KS-1) - New Rifle for British Army

I am a little dubious about the new US rifle the XM70 that uses the .280 Fury round.
It is very high tech and it's ballistics sounds simply wonderful.
BUT, it weighs 10lbs BEFORE you add sights and a light.
Wikipedia's page has tried to skate around the weight issue but more realist commentators who have access to the test rifle have put the all up weight of the rifle at 14lbs (loaded).
The idea of todays soldier lugging 12-14lbs of rifle around and then performing well in combat is fanciful.
The XM70, is not for general issue, the AR15 will remain for non combat troops. The fancy expensive ammo, again not for gen issue, rather for DMR and special forces/when the need is envisage. The standard round will be traditional manufacture and still enough to breach level 5 body armour.
Cost of the round and the excessive barrel wear of such a HMV round is enormous compared to the standard 280, or 277 Sig Fury if you like.
 
Perhaps it would have made more sense, from both cost and reliability angles, to have bought AK47s.

Something like a Galil, or RK62/M95 with the magazine well configured to accept an AR-15 pattern magazine would have been reliable, cheap and effective.

But that's not the world we live in!
 
Something like a Galil, or RK62/M95 with the magazine well configured to accept an AR-15 pattern magazine would have been reliable, cheap and effective.

But that's not the world we live in!
We have the FNC/ak5 ak bolt and piston driven, 5,56 ar15 mag. But they are 40 years and worn out, Sweden replaces them with SAKO 7,62 rifles for combat units and 5.56 self protection weapons for soldiers who dont use them as primary weapon.
 
Every decision on a weapons system made by the military has always been a cluster**** and an overly expensive option.

You should read “The Gun” which references the US military decisions over the M16

Typical public sector decisions
 
Every decision on a weapons system made by the military has always been a cluster**** and an overly expensive option.

You should read “The Gun” which references the US military decisions over the M16

Typical public sector decisions

Whilst funny, I am not sure that's entirely fair.

The adoption of the Lewis, Bren, and Sten were pretty creditable, and more recently the choice by UK armed forces of the Glock17 was a sensible choice of a proven sidearm.

The biggest potential flaw I can see with this recent win for Knights is that if it does go on to significantly influence Grayburn (the full scale replacement of SA80) with another Knights rifle, they might not be big enough to meet the demand whilst preserving the quality.
 
Whilst funny, I am not sure that's entirely fair.

The adoption of the Lewis, Bren, and Sten were pretty creditable, and more recently the choice by UK armed forces of the Glock17 was a sensible choice of a proven sidearm.

The biggest potential flaw I can see with this recent win for Knights is that if it does go on to significantly influence Grayburn (the full scale replacement of SA80) with another Knights rifle, they might not be big enough to meet the demand whilst preserving the quality.
Development of the Martinii Henry and the Lee Metford was a cluster**** making them obsolete before they reached the troups.
 
Development of the Martinii Henry and the Lee Metford was a cluster**** making them obsolete before they reached the troups.

Sure, plenty of f'ups, my point was that not all of them are guaranteed to be. Although I think it's questionable to describe the Martini as "obsolete" at the time. Which contemporary weapon was available that was significantly better?

And in any event, this particular procurement looks like a good one.
 
Bullpups seem to come in for a lot of derision, understandable so after the L85/86 fiasco.

If anyone is interested in the wider bullpup concept and it’s development Thorneycroft to SA80 British Bullpup Firearms 1901 - 2020 (Jonathan S Ferguson) (ISBN978-1-7334246-2-2) is an excellent book.
 
Bullpups seem to come in for a lot of derision, understandable so after the L85/86 fiasco.

If anyone is interested in the wider bullpup concept and it’s development Thorneycroft to SA80 British Bullpup Firearms 1901 - 2020 (Jonathan S Ferguson) (ISBN978-1-7334246-2-2) is an excellent book.
A pricey but worthwhile publication that I was very happy to be gifted in part for being such a nice person and mainly for helping to resurrect the .280/30 as a useful cartridge!
 
Bullpups seem to come in for a lot of derision, understandable so after the L85/86 fiasco.

If anyone is interested in the wider bullpup concept and it’s development Thorneycroft to SA80 British Bullpup Firearms 1901 - 2020 (Jonathan S Ferguson) (ISBN978-1-7334246-2-2) is an excellent book.
Yes, bullpups are (IMHO) generally a poor choice and bad compromise.

Jonathan however is standup gent, scholar and around good chap if my one dealing with him is anything to judge by, and I would love a copy of his book (even though I think bullpups are rubbish).
 
Something like a Galil, or RK62/M95 with the magazine well configured to accept an AR-15 pattern magazine would have been reliable, cheap and effective
Actually not. The time has passed for AK design. About only thing it has over AR-15 is that recoil spring is located in receiver so it can take folding stock (this is kind of biggie in some vehicle and airborne related use cases).

Modern AR-15 has lighter weight (compared to milled receiver AKs), modular upper receiver and free floating modular handguard. All this while being backwards compatible with "traditional AR-15" (at least armorer level). It also has better ergonomics on individual level (plus for SF use, maybe no effect on general army level use).

Modernizing AK makes it even heavier, bulkier and clumsier. And some issues cannot be addressed at all. Complete redesign could address all of the above, but then it will not be cheap and you have to re-evaluate reliability etc. There's really no point.

Maybe most modern "AK" is SIG 550 series (real SIG, AFAIK current Sig in US doesn't have much more than the brand common with it's European roots)
 
Actually not. The time has passed for AK design. About only thing it has over AR-15 is that recoil spring is located in receiver so it can take folding stock (this is kind of biggie in some vehicle and airborne related use cases).

Modern AR-15 has lighter weight (compared to milled receiver AKs), modular upper receiver and free floating modular handguard. All this while being backwards compatible with "traditional AR-15" (at least armorer level). It also has better ergonomics on individual level (plus for SF use, maybe no effect on general army level use).

Modernizing AK makes it even heavier, bulkier and clumsier. And some issues cannot be addressed at all. Complete redesign could address all of the above, but then it will not be cheap and you have to re-evaluate reliability etc. There's really no point.

Maybe most modern "AK" is SIG 550 series (real SIG, AFAIK current Sig in US doesn't have much more than the brand common with it's European roots)

All good points and I am 100% in favor of the adoption of an AR-15 derived rifle for UK armed forces. It should have been done a long time ago.

The point I was making was that an AK based design would have been superior to the SA80 series.

That said, better qualified people than I have suggested that something like the Galil should have been adopted by the US Armed forces for general use. And just about anything would have been better than the SA80!
 
Government procurement is farcical

9k. Per item,,,,,


I’ll not type any further
If you want to screw up anything real good .... Involve the government and civil service . Yeah they are none commercial so the budget goes to hell in a handcart . They are masters of setting out with good intentions but you see there is no individual consequences and no individual rewards
 
AR 15 now have a fold stock option, not cheap but it’s available
No it doesn't. If you take "pure AR-15" yes you can add Law Tactical folding adapter (at $300 or so), but after that your rifle becomes single shot with no possibility to reload. That is, if you need to shoot stock folded.

Law Tactical doesn't seem to promote shooting stock folded, but I've understood the current generation adapters will not break and render the rifle useless. With previous generations it was a toss I've been told, even for single shot.

Furthermore, the adapter makes cleaning and field stripping more of a PITA. For that reason I refrained from buying one some time ago.

Then, if you move the recoil spring to upper receiver, it's definitely not an AR-15 anymore. Personally I don't regard piston designs AR-15 either, the design change is so fundamental, introducing all kinds of problems.
 
Sure, plenty of f'ups, my point was that not all of them are guaranteed to be. Although I think it's questionable to describe the Martini as "obsolete" at the time. Which contemporary weapon was available that was significantly better?

And in any event, this particular procurement looks like a good one.
Better than mark1 and mark1 second pattern, Swiss Vetterli repeater, bolt action, Russian Berdan II better cartridge and bolt action, Mauser 1871 better cartridge and bolt action. Turkish Peabody Martini the same action but a drawn brass cartridge instead of a 5 piece copper.

Yes an ar15 pattern are a good choise.
 
I agree, made no comments on its suitability however. Also I’ve never fired a folding stock version or short stroke piston AR.
I’m also sure that there is not a “stock” AK that’s as accurate as an AR. Shot a few, good fun but accurate as in sub 2 moa, very far from 🥴
 
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