Burn from shotgun

[kieran222]

I was out pigeon shooting yesterday with the shotgun and thought I got something in my eye. I didn't relate it to the shot at the time. Anyway later on my forehead, scalp and right eye started to sting. No visible damage but tingling like it has been stung by nettles. I am right handed, shoot a semi auto and all of this is on my rhs. I think that it might be some kind of chemical burn. Anyone else had similar?

 

[Liveonce]

Been using a semi for years never had such a problem, find it hard to see how it could be the fault of the gun or cartridges, no harmful gases are produced by the burning of modern nitro based propellants and any escaping gas would be away from your face.

Possibly an insect bite ?

 

[bullet chucker]

It can happen' When the ejected case flies away hot' powder can be thrown out enough to cause a burn as if from sparks, they can still be hot. Always wear eye protection? I have several an auto's.

BC.

 

[Liveonce]

certainly seen the occasional flash from the side in poor light when watching a mate shoot an auto, but never experienced anything like the op suggests and have been regularly shooting an auto for 25years.

In a well designed cartridge no hot powder should be ejected with the case as it should all have been burnt within the chamber. And generally any un burnt powder is seen within the breach/barrel.

OP what cartridges were they? may be change to a different type.

 

[Smellydog]

Yes. Harmful residues are possible from nitro powders and I have experienced the same.

Gets real interesting with a flintlock!

 

[Liveonce]

Then i have been lucky

 

[kieran222]

I have used thousands of these cartridges, getting through 1-2 thousand a year and never had it happen before. I'm not going to name the brand but as said have used thousands to date. There aren't really any visible signs of burns but my skin is tender and eye weeping. Definitely will be wearing eye protection in future. There wasn't any noticeable flash or anything unusual about the shot. I wouldn't even have related it to the shooting other than the timing of when I got something in my eye. The irritation built up gradually during the day. I was thinking that this might indicate some type of chemical burn rather than something hot.

 

[Bowland blades]

I was out pigeon shooting yesterday with the shotgun and thought I got something in my eye. I didn't relate it to the shot at the time. Anyway later on my forehead, scalp and right eye started to sting. No visible damage but tingling like it has been stung by nettles. I am right handed, shoot a semi auto and all of this is on my rhs. I think that it might be some kind of chemical burn. Anyone else had similar?

Its common enough i have pictures of it occuring taken by a great photographer at a club shoot . It catches the process of the breech opening and the flame out of the breech. Genrally you dont notice it until you get burnt etc

 

[deerstalker.308]

Sounds more like an allergic reaction to something than burns to me

 

[Liveonce]

nitrocellulose propellant should not give of any chemicals that are able to cause chemical burns like acids or strong alkaline hopefully we may have chemist within the SD members. The big advantage over black powder is that the propellant is all consumed into I think Co2 No2, No and O gases.

Hope you get over the issue quickly.

 

[BRYAN]

Yes. Harmful residues are possible from nitro powders and I have experienced the same.

Gets real interesting with a flintlock!
View attachment 328905

That must be extremely low velocity to require that much lead.

 

[Smellydog]

That must be extremely low velocity to require that much lead.

Your not seeing all the birds...

Re smokeless powders. If the powder goes off or past its best. Or if it's in a wrong application and does not burn correctly acid can form.
I've had magazines and bolts rust from hang fires and also shotgun chamber suddenly go rusty but not from water.

 

[Liveonce]

Your not seeing all the birds...

Re smokeless powders. If the powder goes off or past its best. Or if it's in a wrong application and does not burn correctly acid can form.
I've had magazines and bolts rust from hang fires and also shotgun chamber suddenly go rusty but not from water.

nitric acid can form but it is a very undesirables unstable state and the powder would most likely be decomposing to the point it spontaneously combusts, which is why stabilizers are added to prevent that happing to significantly increase shelf life and that goes back to the invention of smokeless powders in the 1880’s

if you are getting a hang fires that immediately or quickly causes rusting that is of concern, after all a hang fire is just a delayed ignition and more associated with the primer.

Is it always with the same primers and or powder.

 

[Triggermortis]

Was there any crop spraying going on upwind?

 

[Smellydog]

nitric acid can form but it is a very undesirables unstable state and the powder would most likely be decomposing to the point it spontaneously combusts, which is why stabilizers are added to prevent that happing to significantly increase shelf life and that goes back to the invention of smokeless powders in the 1880’s

if you are getting a hang fires that immediately or quickly causes rusting that is of concern, after all a hang fire is just a delayed ignition and more associated with the primer.

Is it always with the same primers and or powder.

It happened with dodgy 12g reloads and when a split HMR caused delayed ignition and gas flow into the receiver and magazine. It can cause acidic residue under abnormal circumstances.
Normal combustion no.

Our friend may well of been reacting to an ingredient. Not necessarily acidic residue that most probably is not present with normal performance from the cartridge.
My point really is I guess assume nothing regarding smokeless powders. They do start off being made from acidic compounds.

 

[Triggermortis]

Could it be an allergic reaction?
We can all become allergic to the most innocuous substances at any time in our lives, even to something we’ve been exposed to for years?

 

[enfieldspares]

It can happen' When the ejected case flies away hot' powder can be thrown out enough to cause a burn as if from sparks, they can still be hot. Always wear eye protection? I have several an auto's.

BC.

Worst self loader I've ever owned for this was a Bernadelli 9mm. Most 12, 16, 20 bore self-loaders won't throw ejecta out of the ejection port as they fire from a locked breech. Be that recoil operated or gas operated. These Bernadelli guns didn't as they appear to be simple blowback not locked breech so as what was mostly going down the barrel did...but enough unburned powder and whatever else came out the ejection port to be just nasty! I had one now thirty plus years ago. It got sold on PDQ after but less then ten rounds for that reason. Just nasty.

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[Smellydog]

Worst self loader I've ever owned for this was a Bernadelli 9mm. Most 12, 16, 20 bore self-loaders won't throw ejecta out of the ejection port as they fire from a locked breech. Be that recoil operated or gas operated. These Bernadelli guns didn't as they appear to be simple blowback not locked breech so as what was mostly going down the barrel did...but enough unburned powder and whatever else came out the ejection port to be just nasty! I had one now thirty plus years ago. It got sold on PDQ after but less then ten rounds for that reason. Just nasty.

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That's not strictly true old chap.
A gas operated auto does have ejecta emerging from the reciever.
The gas unlocks the bolt at a point of relatively lower pressure than peak. The remaining pressure or residual pressure then acts on the cartridge case thrusting the bolt reader ward to cycle the action. You will often find evidence of residue in the reciever.

The best mechanism for limiting ejecta in or at the reciever end is a long recoiling mechanism. It does not totally rely on residual pressure directly acting on the empty case.

 

[Smellydog]

In this video one can observe some ejecta from the port.

Other videos in slow mo show long recoil and short recoil. The long recoil actions have little to no ejecta from the receiver.

Another gasser.

 

[Tazz]

I use a semi auto for pigeon shooting from a hide and if the wind is strong and blowing straight in to the line of the shot I have experienced “stuff” blowing back in to my eye in those conditions I shoot with clay glasses on. Even the best semi autos when they cycle throw some residue out