BASC launches register of competent deer stalkers

[Dickie]

Wasn’t the deer initiative set up like this? From what I heard the main bit that mattered was being IN. Nudge nudge wink wink.

 

[gixer1]

It’s just a sign that more of us realise that we might benefit from having attended some courses and having some tickets to prove to Joe Public/landowner that we should be trusted to carry high powered rifles, use knives, drive quads, etc, on their land, likely then feeding folk with what we produce

You think a few courses completed will stop the general public from disliking fieldsports?

 

[willie_gunn]

It’s like taking an Uber really

Yes, that's not a bad analogy.

Uber requires you to have a valid UK driving license, as well as a private-hire license, before you can start working for them.

https://www.uber.com/gb/en/drive/requirements/?uclick_id=66082a78-b513-42f8-82e0-8f497c1ece77

So BASC requiring you to hold DSC2 would seem to be perfectly reasonable criteria.

 

[StephenToast]

Some ex DI employees found other employment i.e with Forestry, this is an interesting question and reply, read into it as you wish 41:31 into the video, it makes no difference to me but for those registering to this BASC scheme I would insist on it being completely transparent how they select one equally qualified member over another.
Just for clarification, I have DSC2, and in over 30 years I have never been asked (although I have voluntarily supplied) to provide proof of qualification, insurance (don't get me started on that one!) yes, qualifications, no.

Surely though it's not BASC that select the stalker. It's the landowner, in which case it doesn't have to be transparent. I'm a landowner and I choose who does or doesn't shoot on my land and it's none of yours or anybody elses business who I choose or why.

Basically the way I understand BASC are providing a reference service to landowners that want someone to cull their deer, they aren't choosing the stalkers on the landowners behalf.

I'm not a BASC member, nor do I particularly like BASC but in this instance I'm not sure what the fuss is about.

 

[Steve29]

You think a few courses completed will stop the general public from disliking fieldsports?

Nope, but what has ‘liking’ fieldsports got to do with it? I have never taken a course to help persuade someone to like what I do. I take them so I can learn, develop, prove my competence and be ready with a ticket when/if someone asks for it. Where’s the downsides?

 

[gixer1]

Nope, but what has ‘liking’ fieldsports got to do with it? I have never taken a course to help persuade someone to like what I do. I take them so I can learn, develop, prove my competence and be ready with a ticket when/if someone asks for it. Where’s the downsides?

The downside is voluntarily making our lives harder and adding hoops for ourselves to jump through in the hope that society will become more accepting of fieldsports and gun related hobbies - which will never happen, the general public will always see gun = bad.

 

[Steve29]

The downside is voluntarily making our lives harder and adding hoops for ourselves to jump through in the hope that society will become more accepting of fieldsports and gun related hobbies - which will never happen, the general public will always see gun = bad.

We’re more likely to be made subject to hoops if we don’t voluntarily jump through them. “Self-regulate or be regulated” isn’t unique to any particular industry and deer management isn’t immune to it. I would, personally, rather be prepared

 

[gixer1]

We’re more likely to be made subject to hoops if we don’t voluntarily jump through them. “Self-regulate or be regulated” isn’t unique to any particular industry and deer management isn’t immune to it. I would, personally, rather be prepared

I think if you look back historically - any ground we have given relating to firearms has gained us precisely…..

….f*ck all!

It’s similar to the token gesture that the government made to the public by adding a 12” bar and extending the barrel of pistols….yeah, because criminals won’t just cut those off eh?

 

[Selous]

Particularly if that already paid up member happens to be the current lease holder for the bit of land that they've just recommended someone else for

Then would it not be sensible for the hypothetical paid up member to obtain the necessary qualifications so that they are on the list rather than whining about how unfair the world is?

 

[timbrayford]

I think qualifications are great, I have a whole load of shooting & stalking related ones myself. However, during my 10+ years stalking career I've encountered quite a few people that are exceptionally competent at managing wild deer and putting wholesome meat into the food chain that have no qualifications whatsoever!

 

[willie_gunn]

I think qualifications are great, I have a whole load of shooting & stalking related ones myself. However, during my 10+ years stalking career I've encountered quite a few people that are exceptionally competent at managing wild deer and putting wholesome meat into the food chain that have no qualifications whatsoever!

I'm sure we've all encountered the same.

However that would require every potential stalker to be individually interviewed by BASC to determine their suitability.

It is clearly a lot easier to rely on recognised and accredited qualifications.

 

[Steve29]

I think qualifications are great, I have a whole load of shooting & stalking related ones myself. However, during my 10+ years stalking career I've encountered quite a few people that are exceptionally competent at managing wild deer and putting wholesome meat into the food chain that have no qualifications whatsoever!

Absolutely, as I have I. I fear such people will eventually fall by the wayside, though, unless they deal with it. I once knew a tradesman who was top of his game, no one else could do the job better, a van and ladder type. He had no qualifications at all and hadn’t needed them for 40+ years, but the time eventually came when they were called for and he refused to do what was necessary, attend training, etc, so he unfortunately lost his job. He was far more competent than the guy with all the tickets that replaced him, but the guy with all the tickets ticked the boxes and life moved on. Is that necessarily right, no. Is it the way of today’s world, yes. Are stalkers/deer managers immune to going the same way, absolutely not!

 

[Selous]

I think qualifications are great, I have a whole load of shooting & stalking related ones myself. However, during my 10+ years stalking career I've encountered quite a few people that are exceptionally competent at managing wild deer and putting wholesome meat into the food chain that have no qualifications whatsoever!

Yes undoubtedly, but the world moves on for everyone and perhaps these individuals need to consider the benefits of demonstrating their abilities through assessment. It doesn’t have to be time consuming or expensive these days if you know your stuff as you can get the assessment only DSC1 done in one day and the DSC2 stalk done in another day or less. Of course they may find out in the assessment that they are not as good or as knowledgeable as they thought they were and fail but that’s the way of the world. They have at least learned something important and can now do one of two things…1. Go and get properly trained and meet the standard so they are better than they were or 2. Spit their dummy out about how ridiculous assessment is and how the world is flat and not round and how old Grandpappy shot deer in the gut and just swilled them out with water from the stream and he never killed anyone!! As Steve says if he chooses 2 then the opportunities dry up.

 

[timbrayford]

Yes undoubtedly, but the world moves on for everyone and perhaps these individuals need to consider the benefits of demonstrating their abilities through assessment. It doesn’t have to be time consuming or expensive these days if you know your stuff as you can get the assessment only DSC1 done in one day and the DSC2 stalk done in another day or less. Of course they may find out in the assessment that they are not as good or as knowledgeable as they thought they were and fail but that’s the way of the world. They have at least learned something important and can now do one of two things…1. Go and get properly trained and meet the standard so they are better than they were or 2. Spit their dummy out about how ridiculous assessment is and how the world is flat and not round and how old Grandpappy shot deer in the gut and just swilled them out with water from the stream and he never killed anyone!! As Steve says if he chooses 2 then the opportunities dry up.

Fair enough but I can quite understand the unwillingness of very experienced deer managers to be assessed by those of less experience and competence than themselves regardless of any slip of paper.

 

[willie_gunn]

Fair enough but I can quite understand the unwillingness of very experienced deer managers to be assessed by those of less experience and competence than themselves regardless of any slip of paper.

I can understand it also, but I would suggest it is a problem more in the imagination than the reality.

For example I witnessed the professional stalker on the estate we visited in Sutherland for 20 years. He shot more deer in a year than I will potentially do in a lifetime, yet he had no problem being assessed by someone of less experience and competence than himself. We actually joked about it beforehand. That "slip of paper" was beneficial, for both him and the landowner, and it was a pleasure to be able to witness him.

I've recently witnessed other stalkers who I'm sure shoot more deer each year than I do. It is no big deal, either for them or for me. They want a Witness who is professional and competent, which hopefully I am, and I find in return that I can often learn much from the Candidates I witness. Hopefully we both find the experience beneficial.

Also keep in in that with a Witnessed Stalk these days the AW is doing nothing other than observing that the Candidate is meeting the relevant Performance Criteria. In that respect it is totally objective, not subjective - and at least in that respect, dare I say, far superior to the old, 3-stalk, system.

 

[Steve29]

Fair enough but I can quite understand the unwillingness of very experienced deer managers to be assessed by those of less experience and competence than themselves regardless of any slip of paper.

I’ve encountered this mindset many times in different scenarios and find it very difficult to understand, even upsetting on occasion. It’s like watching someone score an own goal, or trying to swim upstream, or any similar analogy, for no point whatsoever. It’s painful to see, and the only person that loses out is the person refusing to get with the times.

 

[gixer1]

The other issue here is what seems to be a multi branch approach. The best thing for shooting sports would be for the organisations to get together and create a U.K. standard course. Not one for BASC, one for SGA, one for BDS etc….

There’s no continuity, if we can’t agree as a group then it’s never going to go well.

 

[Selous]

Fair enough but I can quite understand the unwillingness of very experienced deer managers to be assessed by those of less experience and competence than themselves regardless of any slip of paper.

I can appreciate that, however having attended, countless CPD events as a delegate and as teaching faculty in several diverse fields I have always learnt something new, even when I have been co lecturing. Having such a closed mind where the attitude is that there is nothing more to learn is pretty poor form in any walk of life. Definitely nothing to be proud of.

 

[Selous]

The other issue here is what seems to be a multi branch approach. The best thing for shooting sports would be for the organisations to get together and create a U.K. standard course. Not one for BASC, one for SGA, one for BDS etc….

There’s no continuity, if we can’t agree as a group then it’s never going to go well.

Err…. Isn’t that DMQ??

 

[willie_gunn]

The other issue here is what seems to be a multi branch approach. The best thing for shooting sports would be for the organisations to get together and create a U.K. standard course. Not one for BASC, one for SGA, one for BDS etc….

There’s no continuity, if we can’t agree as a group then it’s never going to go well.

When it comes to deer stalking there is a UK standard course - DSC1 and DSC2 - they are supported by BASC, BDS, NGO, SGA, etc.