FAC Land Access Requirements for .308

[VSS]

But they make the rules !

No they don't. They administer the rules.

 

[25 Sharps]

But they make the rules !

No they bloody don’t!

The rules are the legislation, the guidance is how they should be interpreted and applied.

The guidance says paid stalksbis good reason, that’s the end of it, no matter what the FLD thinks.

 

[Foxyboy43]

No they bloody don’t!

The rules are the legislation, the guidance is how they should be interpreted and applied.

The guidance says paid stalksbis good reason, that’s the end of it, no matter what the FLD thinks.

On a general minor technical point “Guidance” is how Parliament’s wishes, as set in Legislation is interpreted by respective Departmental Legislation Branches but, and it is a big but, it can be wrong!
Just saying…

 

[Jh1986]

No they bloody don’t!

The rules are the legislation, the guidance is how they should be interpreted and applied.

The guidance says paid stalksbis good reason, that’s the end of it, no matter what the FLD thinks.

And I had one tell me specifically that paid stalks were not good enough reason in their mind because nobody keeps them up due to the cost. Also, I did get told when I asked a question on good reason, that they are not an advice service to help you gain FAC. They are just the body that administrates it

Some FEO are obviously very different to others, but just like in all walks of life and be doubt with one from either end of the spectrum.

 

[bottletopbill]

Try to book a couple of stalks with Sika malc or Sussex Steve both on this site and both are great guy's and will
help you.
Regardless of being a newbie both well worth the money and so helpful to other's
NO I have not stalked with either but have been there when other guys have and a great time by there comments.
What club do you belong to I am a member of St N

 

[One on top of two]

No they bloody don’t!

The rules are the legislation, the guidance is how they should be interpreted and applied.

The guidance says paid stalksbis good reason, that’s the end of it, no matter what the FLD thinks.

On a general minor technical point “Guidance” is how Parliament’s wishes, as set in Legislation is interpreted by respective Departmental Legislation Branches but, and it is a big but, it can be wrong!
Just saying…

You both know exactly what I mean you just being pedants.


My point is he hasn’t spoken to his licensing dept Yet. So give them
a bell and then he take what ever action see’s fit and then seek advice. Instead your commenting on a possible outcome that might not even come to pass.

 

[25 Sharps]

And I had one tell me specifically that paid stalks were not good enough reason in their mind because nobody keeps them up due to the cost. Also, I did get told when I asked a question on good reason, that they are not an advice service to help you gain FAC. They are just the body that administrates it

Some FEO are obviously very different to others, but just like in all walks of life and be doubt with one from either end of the spectrum.

So, you should have pointed him in the direction of the specific section of guidance that says it is.

As I have said on this and other threads, FLDs are not always right.

 

[25 Sharps]

You both know exactly what I mean you just being pedants.


My point is he hasn’t spoken to his licensing dept Yet. So give them
a bell and then he take what ever action see’s fit and then seek advice. Instead your commenting on a possible outcome that might not even come to pass.

No, people are saying get some paid stalks and that will give you good reason, then apply. Then if the FLD say no, take advice.

 

[Foxyboy43]

You both know exactly what I mean you just being pedants.


My point is he hasn’t spoken to his licensing dept Yet. So give them
a bell and then he take what ever action see’s fit and then seek advice. Instead your commenting on a possible outcome that might not even come to pass.

Pedantic - moi?
In truth just stating a fact - I had the unenviable task of drafting legislation for several years - interpreting and setting the wishes of Parliament onto tablets of stone was no mean feat - Stanley Unwin would have struggled!

 

[SnackStalker]

Thanks for all of the replies, everyone. This thread has been really useful.

Given that the final decision is going to be at the discretion of my FAO, and that there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer to my question, I think I'm just going to do my thing and see where it takes me. I want to stalk so I'm getting my FAC, not the other way around, so I'll arrange paid stalks, book my DSC1 course a little later this year and just prepare to the best of my ability. I should be able to demonstrate both reason and intent, which should hopefully be enough.

Worst case scenario is I don't get issued a ticket for a .308., but I still get more experience doing something that interests me.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[SnackStalker]

Try to book a couple of stalks with Sika malc or Sussex Steve both on this site and both are great guy's and will
help you.
Regardless of being a newbie both well worth the money and so helpful to other's
NO I have not stalked with either but have been there when other guys have and a great time by there comments.
What club do you belong to I am a member of St N

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll reach out.to big members when the time is right.

I'm also St N. If you're ever there in a Wednesday night, you likely know me!

 

[samdk]

Why do you not just ask your licensing department ? They will tell you everything you need to know and everything you need to do .

One persons license and there conditions are for them only , in the same way licensing department's are all different and all have there own requirement's for granting licences’s .

So stop wasting your time getting 50 different answers to the same question’s and give them a bell .

Sound advice!

 

[samdk]

Because they are not always right!

They may not all be right but they are the ones in control.
Contesting them rarely yields the desired outcome, appeasing them might.

 

[Heym SR20]

There are plenty of London based stalkers who own their own rifles, don’t have their own land but go on safari or stalk a couple of times a year.

But any Police Force will quite rightly insist on you having good justification for a rifle. Get some experience by booking stalking. Find out what you like. Do your DSC1. Then apply on the basis of good knowledge and experience. FEO can see through bull****, and they won’t let individuals have rifles just because they want one.

There is also a very big difference between shooting in the very controlled environment of a club, versus using a full bore rifle out in the field.

But you don’t need to a member of club to hold a stalking rifle. You need to demonstrate good reason through being an active deerstalker.

You might also find you don’t want a 308.

 

[DavyG]

You’ve had some good advice and clarification on the “guidance”.
However, from reading your initial post it would appear that this is your first venture into shooting with a rifle.
I feel I must ask the question, have you shot live game before? As has been suggested, book an outing with someone. Shooting deer isn’t for everyone…it might not be for you.
Best regards,
DG

 

[GlosChris]

Just speaking from my experience in Gloucestershire...

Previous paid stalks + DSC1 + previous shooting experience + letter from stalking guide all formed my experience.

Future paid stalks form my 'good reason'... however, book them well in advance - I booked some and the process took so long that by the time I was interviewed they had all been done and they said I couldn't have a deer condition as I didn't have any invites to reason it. So keep them ticking over for your enjoyment, but if cost is an issue, then make sure you book at least one a good few months away.

It was all about ticking the boxes in what is essentially a business process compliance exercise - go through what is required, what is preferred and know the HO guidance etc and you'll be fine.

 

[sikamalc]

I'm intending to apply for my FAC via the Met in London soon and I'm getting conflicting information about land access requirements requirements.

I'm applying for approval to keep a few small bore rifles for target shooting and a .308 for deer stalking.

The small bore rifles are easy to establish reason for ownership as I can use them for target shooting at my local rifle club.

Getting approval for the .308 seems a bit more complicated as, even if I can establish why I need a deer hunting rifle, I can't shoot full bore rifles at my rifle club and I don't own land or have membership anywhere else where it would be permissable.

I should note that I do note have my DSC1 yet.

Would having a few stalks completed, and also having a few booked for the future, be enough to meet the land requirements in addition to demonstrating my reason for ownership?

I recently had someone tell me that I need to be a member of a syndicate or deer stalking club for the application, but I can't find anything that explicitly states as such.

Thanks for your help

The answer is yes. Booking a stalk with a recognised stalker who has the rights on paper to shoot and manage deer on ground they lease or own should be sufficient for you to have a 308, providing the land is cleared for that calibre.
What they may ask for is the name of the ground to check it out. However, I have been in that position of where the client has requested the name of the ground, and the police put the named ground on their ticket. This was soon taken OFF.

There seems to be a number of FEO's who seem to think that the name of the ground must be on the applicants ticket. This is WRONG. Many FEO's do not read the FA act, in which it states that a booked stalk is sufficient enough reason for someone to apply for and have a stalking rifle.

Make sure you get a receipt for your booked stalk, and that whom so ever is taking you out, that they are fully commercially insured, IF you are paying for the privilege.
You should be granted a closed ticket as your first application for a centre fire. This will allow you to take the rifle to and from a place you are paying to stalk or invited to stalk, provided the area is cleared for the calibre you have.

 

[25 Sharps]

They may not all be right but they are the ones in control.
Contesting them rarely yields the desired outcome, appeasing them might.

When did this country become full of wet lettuces?

 

[samdk]

When did this country become full of wet lettuces?

Does contesting the reasonable requests of an FEO rather than seeking their advice and complying make you big, manly and authoritative?
Because it certainly doesn’t make you intelligent.

 

[25 Sharps]

Does contesting the reasonable requests of an FEO rather than seeking their advice and complying make you big, manly and authoritative?
Because it certainly doesn’t make you intelligent.

Since when is being told paid stalks is not good reason and you have to go and get permission a reasonable request?

I have a good releationship with my FLD, that doesn’t mean I am not going to politely and professionally challenge them if they make a request or decision that is not in line with the legislation or guidance, which I have on more than one occasion.

People should make themselves conversant with the legislation and guidance and not just bend over to take anything they are told by their FLD as gospel.