Has the "Thermal" Spoiled Deer Stalking?

[JH83]

I know quite a few stalkers with all the modern kit,and still don't grass that many deer. You can use thermal for finding deer,but that doesn't mean there's a shot on because you can't even see a hair when you look through the scope. I've lost count of how many times I've seen a full thermal image of a deer,but nothing was visible through the scope. I would say I don't agree with using thermal rifle scopes for shooting deer in thick cover for the same reason as there's way to much risk of wounding. I have no problem using thermal spotters for finding deer as I'm not interested in killing everything I see. I remember an interesting conversation I had with an old stalker in the mid 70s. The conversation went along the lines of me asking why he hadn't got at telescopic sight on his rifle,and his reply was,I don't use one because it's an unfair advantage,and not fair on the deer!
The conversation on the ethics of ever improving technology has probably raged since gunpowder first propelled a projectile down a barrel. Use common sense and some thought for what you are shooting,and you won't go far wrong.

I agree with this.

In very specific situations it’s hugely advantageous, stalking small deer in thick undercover. I have lost track of the amount of times thermal has shown me pin pricks of heat from the other side of a load of hollies, leading me to cull deer that would have been bumped.

However on the moors at first light, when you identify a group of reds moving to their laying up spot…thermal doesn’t really do a lot for you there, you’ve still a lot of work to do.

Maybe pressure from foresters, WS1 grants, SNH, and greedy folk with too much ground not culling enough is spoiling stalking, as it all puts huge pressure on us all, necessitating thermal/digital and whatever else?

 

[sauer]

Maybe said stalkers with almost the modern gear don't grass that many deer ..maybe more to do with
1. Amount of time they have
2.freezer space they have or lack of
3.lack of game dealer conveniently close to off load
4. Lack of or size of permission being small and actual lack of numbers on the ground

Paul

 

[miffy]

Simple answer yes.
But a great tool if it's a numbers game.

 

[viking90]

I don't use one as I can't justify the cost but a friend I stalk with does and they're fantastic at saving a wasted walk. The time I'd waste having to move slow and glass alot only to not see anything is massively reduced if he brings his thermal which is always a good thing.
The down side I can see is people becoming useless at stalking without a thermal to help them

 

[Grannysmith]

Most definitely yes!
Unsporting and morally wrong

 

[HonestJohn]

Most definitely yes!
Unsporting and morally wrong

I think one of the moderators on here who is a stalking guide used to say that they would refuse clients with a thermal. I wonder if they still stand by that

 

[Tim.243]

I think one of the moderators on here who is a stalking guide used to say that they would refuse clients with a thermal. I wonder if they still stand by that

There was a guy on SD who pretended to be a stocker I wonder if he still stands by that...

 

[mealiejimmy]

Most definitely yes!
Unsporting and morally wrong

I think you will find that many deer stalkers use them and find them invaluable
They are simply another tool in the box that deerstalkers have
As to unsporting and and immoral what kit kit do you use when you go deer stalking?
I'll bet it involves a bolt action rifle and a glass rifllescope
Is that not unsporting and immoral compared to going out with a musket and open sights?
Glass riflescopes and rifled barrelled guns have accounted for far more deer than any thermal
You are obviously entitled to your opinion and if you don't want to use thermal then nobody is forcing you be
However don't treat people who do use thermal as some sort of second class citizen


Cheers

Bruce

 

[HonestJohn]

Quite a good point Bruce, but to take the idea further, Where is the line whereby it becomes unsporting? If we have technology to shoot deer remotely from far afield, would this be considered acceptable deer management practices? Poison boxes? Or genetic engineering to reduce reproductive rates in deer or pest species?

Just throwing it out there, because whilst developments in technology should be appreciated and adapted where applicable, where is ‘the line’ where we enter the territory of unsportsmanlike or unethical

 

[VSS]

Quite a good point Bruce, but to take the idea further, Where is the line whereby it becomes unsporting? If we have technology to shoot deer remotely from far afield, would this be considered acceptable deer management practices? Poison boxes? Or genetic engineering to reduce reproductive rates in deer or pest species?

Just throwing it out there, because whilst developments in technology should be appreciated and adapted where applicable, where is ‘the line’ where we enter the territory of unsportsmanlike or unethical

I think the line is crossed when control becomes indiscriminate.
As long as we are choosing which animals to take out - whether that's the old and sick, or prime animals for the food chain - I think the ethics stand up to scrutiny even if available technology is used to achieve it.
However, once you move into the realms of poison, gene editing or birth control you've gone too far, imo.

 

[HonestJohn]

I think the line is crossed when control becomes indiscriminate.
As long as we are choosing which animals to take out - whether that's the old and sick, or prime animals for the food chain - I think the ethics stand up to scrutiny even if available technology is used to achieve it.
However, once you move into the realms of poison, gene editing or birth control you've gone too far, imo.

I think the indiscriminate line started getting crossed in Scotland a few years ago, and is standard practice for many these days, sadly. The honourable deer manager exists in very few pockets and is a dying breed. I know a few, but know many more on the other side of the fence.
The poison and gene editing I reckon would be pushed by government, with the view of further choking the life out of private firearms ownership. I suspect the ‘brown is down’ brigade wouldn’t support it because their MO is in many cases the joy of shooting and fun in killing, or purely for financial gain, with no regard for maintaining herd structure and such.
Contentious, I know

 

[VSS]

I think the indiscriminate line started getting crossed in Scotland a few years ago, and is standard practice for many these days, sadly. The honourable deer manager exists in very few pockets and is a dying breed. I know a few, but know many more on the other side of the fence.
The poison and gene editing I reckon would be pushed by government, with the view of further choking the life out of private firearms ownership. I suspect the ‘brown is down’ brigade wouldn’t support it because their MO is in many cases the joy of shooting and fun in killing, or purely for financial gain, with no regard for maintaining herd structure and such.
Contentious, I know

No. There is still a conscious choice made as to what to shoot, even if the choice made is to shoot everything seen. Therefore it's not indiscriminate. Every time the trigger is pulled, the person behind the rifle is choosing whether to take the shot or not.

Unlike poison, which is indiscriminate.

 

[User00057]

The way I look at it is if thermal has ruined anyone’s Stalking it’s not really the thermal ruining it. It yourself, as you are the only one in control of how you Stalk. The thermal is a tool as is any other form of optic. Nothing has forced you to change anything other than how you view them. The post should say Thermal been blamed for ruining Stalking.

 

[Happy stalker]

I wouldn’t say thermal has ruined stalking what I would say is that the folk who have come into stalking and never learned the joy of spying with binoculars picking out a flickering ear the slightest movement building up in your minds eye a vision I personally feel that’s what folk have lost.
I only use my thermal on ground that I need to where there is a no deer policy this is where thermal in my opinion has it’s use and getting the job done quicker.

 

[Tazz]

As someone who predominantly stalks Fallow thermal handhelds have improved my performance especially when stalking on foot in woodland. That said it a slight advantage over my days with just binos, you still have to stalk them, pick the right animal and get an accurate shot away. They are also for those of us without dogs on finding deer that have run in cover

 

[kevtherev]

Another ‘tool’ in the box so to speak it’s up to each individual how or where they use a thermal.
Dense woodland would be an obvious area where a thermal would be advantageous however it still doesn’t remove the skill in picking up the animal taking the shot safely and locating the animal after.
(Especially if you don’t have a dog)

 

[User00057]

Yep anyone with a thermal will agree when you get the odd runner the Thermal is an amazing tool to help locate. Yet I’ve still had them that the thermal hasn’t found until on top of them.

 

[Jagged77]

I think it depends on the definition of spoiled. Technology is always going to move on and it’s up to the individual as to how they utilise it within legal and ethical boundaries. Personally, thermal has enhanced my enjoyment of stalking tremendously. It’s not a magic pill by any stretch, just another tool in the armoury to try and tip the odds and reduce the amount of blanks. I’ve had several brilliant stalks after ID’ing a deer in clearfell 800/900 yards away and then stalking to within 150 yards for a shot. I still have to put the effort in on the ground and have a good idea when and where they’re going to be.

 

[User00057]

Think they are a useful tool for spotting but I couldn’t ever imagine using a thermal scope for Deer or even Foxes for that matter.

 

[kevtherev]

Think they are a useful tool for spotting but I couldn’t ever imagine using a thermal scope for Deer or even Foxes for that matter.

Thermal pants are needed in January