BASC issues statement in response to RSPB hen harrier report

[Conor O'Gorman]

Why are you trying to complicate it ? So many of us are simple people who understand and crave simple things from our representatives

There is nothing to complicate. BASC has been using its social media channels to put out various facts on the benefits of grouse shooting in the lead up to tomorrow's Westminster Hall debate on the Wild Justice petition to ban driven grouse shooting. You have supported that and thank you again for that. And at the risk of repetition, as regards the OP, there has been media coverage of the report and those media reports include Moorland Association and BASC counterpoints in relation to some of the assertions made by RSPB. I provided a list of most of those articles earlier in this thread.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Thats great Conor, but they don't go on your channels for information, the likes of wild justice will pick out little bits, usually out of context and say "what do you think of this" shock, horror. While I agree it will be an uphill (near vertical) struggle and open to abuse from antis, simply countering their lies with facts will benefit us, marathon not a sprint

As above, there has been media coverage of the RSPB report and those media reports include Moorland Association and BASC counterpoints in relation to some of the assertions made by RSPB. I provided a list of most of those articles earlier in this thread.

 

[Cranborne]

Attacking the messenger perhaps loses sight of the key issue - the ongoing illegal killing of hen harriers and other birds of prey. We can challenge these reports as they arise, and we do, but the inescapable fact is that every new incident reported in the media undermines the argument that shooting is essential to nature recovery.

As regards media coverage on the RSPB report on hen harriers the Moorland Association and BASC have provided counter points in the various places the article has appeared. See below. If you or anyone else sees coverage in your local media please write to them with counter points.

• Record number of hen harriers killed or missing: BBC News
  
  
  
• Number of hen harriers killed or missing at new high, RSPB warns Independent
  
  
  
• Record numbers of rare bird found in Forest of Bowland have been killed or gone missing Lancashire Evening Post
  
  
  
• RSPB warns hen harriers killed or missing is at new high Worcester News
  
  
  
• Number of hen harriers killed or missing at new high, RSPB warns Darlington & Stockton Times
  
  
  
• RSPB warns hen harriers killed or missing is at new high Wandsworth Guardian
  
  
  
• Number of hen harriers killed or missing at new high, RSPB warns Redditch Advertiser
  
  
  
• RSPB warns hen harriers killed or missing is at new high Irvine Times

Conor; will BASC be writing to these local papers?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Conor; will BASC be writing to these local papers?

No. The counterpoints were published. Its old news now in any case.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I would love to see a full biodiversity study done on Langholm Moor now it's been in the hands of the community with no moorland management since 2021, it already has studies as a managed moor now would be a good time to do a full comparison.

Might be a bit early for such a study but worth asking GWCT - see a recently conducted study at Otterburn, Northumberland, 10 years after predator management by gamekeepers ceased:

The role of predation management: Ten years on from a predator removal experiment - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

 

[jall55]

No. The counterpoints were published. Its old news now in any case.

Wow

 

[PeterHenry]

Wow

I think you might me missing the point (either that, or I am) - what Connor is saying is that BASC have had their comments published as part of the articles.

 

[jall55]

I think you might me missing the point (either that, or I am) - what Connor is saying is that BASC have had their comments published as part of the articles.

I dont think so - do you think people reading the report have moved on quickly ? The moderates who sit on the fence but would appreciate a bit of clarification ? People like my neighbours actually who have read the reports and know i shoot so have asked me things

 

[Liveonce]

the grouse shooting debate is live at 4:30pm

UK Parliament

Where UK House of Commons and UK House of Lords scrutinise the work of the Government. Learn more about Parliament, its people and our unique heritage.

www.youtube.com

 

[PeterHenry]

I dont think so - do you think people reading the report have moved on quickly ? The moderates who sit on the fence but would appreciate a bit of clarification ? People like my neighbours actually who have read the reports and know i shoot so have asked me things

Sorry, I think we may be talking across each other. It seemed to me that you were incredulous that BASC had not complained to the newspapers about them running their various articles. I was saying that when you read the articles, BASC's comments have been published as part of them.

If that wasn't what you were saying, I apologise - I've got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[jall55]

Sorry, I think we may be talking across each other. It seemed to me that you were incredulous that BASC had not complained to the newspapers about them running their various articles. I was saying that when you read the articles, BASC's comments have been published as part of them.

If that wasn't what you were saying, I apologise - I've got the wrong end of the stick.

I am simply shocked Peter at the notion that yet another serious attack on our lives is now classed as old news

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I dont think so - do you think people reading the report have moved on quickly ? The moderates who sit on the fence but would appreciate a bit of clarification ? People like my neighbours actually who have read the reports and know i shoot so have asked me things

I don't think many have read the actual report. It is a pdf download from the RSPB website that is not linked from any of the media stories about it. As regards the media coverage of the RSPB press release about the report its old news. Media moves on quickly. That is the way of things. There has been no new media coverage since Friday. The only shooting/moorland media article since then was published on Saturday here:

If we lose grouse shooting, we risk losing wildlife, livelihoods and the character of our uplands - Alex Farrell

Yorkshire’s uplands are among the most iconic and ecologically rich landscapes in the UK. From the sweeping heather of the North York Moors and beyond, these places are not untouched wilderness - they are living, working landscapes, shaped for generations by those who care for them. And at the...

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

 

[jall55]

the grouse shooting debate is live at 4:30pm

UK Parliament

Where UK House of Commons and UK House of Lords scrutinise the work of the Government. Learn more about Parliament, its people and our unique heritage.

www.youtube.com

Going very very well indeed - some excellent speakers

 

[jall55]

Going very very well indeed - some excellent speakers

Amazing result -well done BASC , GWCT , Moorland Association, Curlew Action, NGO Countryside Alliance- everyone who engaged - Sorry if i missed anyone but Mr P had his bottom handed to him on a silver platter

The MPs that spoke did so with vigour , enthusiasm , knowledge and science - awesome

 

[Liveonce]

so it was what 104,000 that signed the petition to ban grouse shooting but looked like about 400 at its peak that viewed it online.

credit where it is due, well done to BASC for providing MPs with briefing material prior to the debate.

 

[Mickeydredd]

so what is the way forward to make the issue go away? is it not similar to lead shot? in that to make the issue go away we likely have to tolerate a move to non toxic shot.

Not at all. The way forward is for our organisations/ representatives to try to get the corrections with true facts and figures on every platform that the RSPB et al put the skewed position on.

The problem is however, as others have pointed out, is that is very difficult to do as the RSPB have a captive supportive audience that simply will not see or give any credence to any alternative viewpoint.

What is really required is somehow to get someone / some body that is a recognised authority to dissect the RSPB/WJ/Raptor Persecution stats on a widely viewed platform and prove how wrong they are. Panorama style programme is an option if they were of a mind to attack the RSPB etc.

 

[Liveonce]

Not at all. The way forward is for our organisations/ representatives to try to get the corrections with true facts and figures on every platform that the RSPB et al put the skewed position on.

The problem is however, as others have pointed out, is that is very difficult to do as the RSPB have a captive supportive audience that simply will not see or give any credence to any alternative viewpoint.

What is really required is somehow to get someone / some body that is a recognised authority to dissect the RSPB/WJ/Raptor Persecution stats on a widely viewed platform and prove how wrong they are. Panorama style programme is an option if they were of a mind to attack the RSPB etc.

would that work if the tracking devices show they “disappear” on grouse moors?

May be what’s need is much stiffer penalties for those that get caught, but if I understand the data correct only two prosecution for illegal killing of raptors and both in Scotland.

 

[Mickeydredd]

would that work if the tracking devices show they “disappear” on grouse moors?

May be what’s need is much stiffer penalties for those that get caught, but if I understand the data correct only two prosecution for illegal killing of raptors and both in Scotland.

The most likely place for a HH tracker to fail is on a managed grouse moor as that is their favoured habitat and varied prey is available. Undoubtedly there is still persecution, but not on any grand scale.

Tracking devices do fail, they are not the foolproof kit the RSPB proclaim, just ask any falconer using similar technology. Also, if the 70% first year mortality rates still prevail on tracked HH then why do the RSPB not find this huge percentage ….? Strange huh!

 

[mudman]

I watched the first hour or so. BASC got mentioned a lot, with close runners up the CA, CLA and GWCT. It does seem as if the big pro shooting organisations are getting the message through to at least some MP’s.

I loved the way some pro grouse shooting MP’s repeatedly referred to the proponents of the ‘ban driven grouse shooting’ petition as activists. For that is what they are, and the word has negative connotations to most of the public, clever use of a word, but I must add it is something our opponents have utilised for a long time with their us of short phrases like ‘shooting industry’ and oft repeated new one ‘killing for fun’.

 

[jall55]

I watched the first hour or so. BASC got mentioned a lot, with close runners up the CA, CLA and GWCT. It does seem as if the big pro shooting organisations are getting the message through to at least some MP’s.

I loved the way some pro grouse shooting MP’s repeatedly referred to the proponents of the ‘ban driven grouse shooting’ petition as activists. For that is what they are, and the word has negative connotations to most of the public, clever use of a word, but I must add it is something our opponents have utilised for a long time with their us of short phrases like ‘shooting industry’ and oft repeated new one ‘killing for fun’.

Made me smile when one of the MPs mentioned that a certain activist close by earns 10 times as much as the gamekeepers that are doing the real work