Lead ammunition restrictions - government announcement

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It’s not voluntary without consulting members
Volunteering to move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting was and is your choice. Nobody has been forcing you to do anything. However, if you disagreed with the strategy on this all those years ago did you make representations to BASC Council about your concerns? There was an online AGM on 11 July 2020 for example.
 
One of the issues being that steel shot was wounding but not killing outright, another plastic wads causing potential issues if consumed by cattle. The Scottish rules would have made far more sense but we are where we are now.

Steel kills pheasants fine and the wads are available - look at Eley bio wad
We have kept game records for circa 40 years and last year with our steel transition ratios of shots to kills were very very similar
 
The technology is suspect at best, most biodegradable wads need industrial composting the water soluble disappear quick but questionable about what remains, only the cardboard tube type have microorganisms in nature that eat them.

Some biodegradable wads will be in the environment a very long time but less than single use plastic, they have to work at high pressure and high temperature within the gun so it’s challenging.

Progress is being made mainly thanks to the packaging industry an industry worth billions more than shooting but still business are going back to cardboard and paper bags for packaging.

We as shooters and consumers should be given more information about the wads within each product.

this from one wad manufacturer type and just because the material is EN13432 does not mean the product made from it is.


The literature from xxxxx states as follows

" degrades at least 90% in 6 months when subjected to an environment rich in carbon dioxide"
"when in contact with organic materials for a period of 3 months, the mass of the material decomposes for 90% from fragments less than 2mm in size"
"The material is EN13432 certified"

However, the time frames are not applicable to the UK climate. It will take longer to degrade . What shooters have to realise is that to retain the performance and ballistics of a plastic wad the bio wad needs to be rigid/stable enough to suffer the pressure and heat when a cartridge is fired.

These wads will not degrade within weeks or a few months, they will degrade but there are many factors that determine the timeframe. Eg they will start to breakdown quicker in summer, they will breakdown quicker in the South West of the country compared to the north east / Scotland etc due to climate variation.

Also, we need the wads to have a good shelf life, so shooters can store them for a number of months without fear of the wad breaking down in storage. There must be some compromise. Even a fibre wad doesn't degrade within days/ weeks. It can remain for a while.
Agree with everything you say - there is a lot of work going on in the packaging industry - some which will be applicable to shooting.
 
The big solution to all this really is just leave the shooting organisations full stop, not one of them is worth a £1 of my cash that’s for sure.

It’s all political BS anyway, mindless drivel that’s been rolling on for far too many years.

Like I said, if everybody just stopped posting about it, do not highlight or be concerned about it and just carried on in your own way what’s gonna happen?
Some merit in what you say , however there's a lot to like about the NGO from a personal perspective.
 
Therein lies the problem, a lot of the proposed alternatives are not readily available, if you shoot with anything smaller than a 12 bore you are on a hiding to nothing. Again, with the rifle stuff it's very much a matter of trial and error, e.g with my .243 58gr Barnes forms a tight clover leaf group (subject to firer!), whilst 58 gr Hornady projectiles tumble. Tried the Hornady in a friends rifle and they performed faultlessly.
But to reiterate, if you can't get hold of the non-lead stuff you can't use it, and that to my mind has been the major stumbling block since 2020.
I think, and hope, that ammo for smaller shotties will start to appear now that the government has made a definite declaration.
 
I have some so called bio wads in my front garden. They have been there since January. They could be reloaded as they are not composted one bit!




I think a lot of folk like their ears tickled!
Try those Eley ones SD and see what you think - i do get however the question about what they are broken down in to - the web says something that is natural broken down by micro organisms - but i wonder what that is ?
 
Steel kills pheasants fine and the wads are available - look at Eley bio wad
We have kept game records for circa 40 years and last year with our steel transition ratios of shots to kills were very very similar
I don't recall a biowad option back in 2020, the Eley steel shot cartridges that the local gunshop supplied were plastic cup wads, it was the shoot captain who said to stop using steel based on the number of wounded ducks found suffering following shoot days. I switched to bismuth/ fibre wads but I haven't been able to get further supplies for the past two or three years. Still got a couple of boxes left which in reality will be sufficient for this year.
 
The “anti brigade” have the upper hand at the moment. They are very media savvy. But ……

There is one hell of a lot of very good work done by the shooting community towards creating wild life rich habitats. Its that we are not very good at all at talking about it, promoting it etc. etc.

If people have a view on shooting its of “loads of money” group all turning up at the pub in their large Range Rover sports then boasting how many birds they have shot and how much they spend on shooting. I think we can all recognise such types.

What’s not recognised is the time and efforts put into creating habitats etc etc. the guys and girls are not in the pub - they are out in the woods doing the work.
Dont knock the pub park mate - part of shooting is the social side -- getting men women - kids together - young and old
I have realised this last few years what a community shooting is and how it can be for many a lifeline
 
Try those Eley ones SD and see what you think - i do get however the question about what they are broken down in to - the web says something that is natural broken down by micro organisms - but i wonder what that is ?
I admire your positivity.
However, the majority will use the cheapest they can get away with. Most of them will not do an in-depth study into wads!
 
I think, and hope, that ammo for smaller shotties will start to appear now that the government has made a definite declaration.
Given local supply issues I'll probably start reloading shotgun cartridges, like I had to do with rifle ammunition.
 
Dont knock the pub park mate - part of shooting is the social side -- getting men women - kids together - young and old
I have realised this last few years what a community shooting is and how it can be for many a lifeline
I am not knocking the pub - I am knocking a certain type of individual.
 
I don't recall a biowad option back in 2020, the Eley steel shot cartridges that the local gunshop supplied were plastic cup wads, it was the shoot captain who said to stop using steel based on the number of wounded ducks found suffering following shoot days. I switched to bismuth/ fibre wads but I haven't been able to get further supplies for the past two or three years. Still got a couple of boxes left which in reality will be sufficient for this year.

I would not argue about the date Tim - but they are now and honestly seem to work really well

Not only do i run the shoot but i do the picking up afterwards (next day) for any runners / birds we could not find - i have found less wounded with steel - same place - same dogs
I was very anti steel as i remember it being forced on us shooting a few ducks as lads - and i do remember the lack of performance - The new stuff - for me and many / most on our shoot - no issues
 
The technology is suspect at best, most biodegradable wads need industrial composting the water soluble disappear quick but questionable about what remains, only the cardboard tube type have microorganisms in nature that eat them.

Some biodegradable wads will be in the environment a very long time but less than single use plastic, they have to work at high pressure and high temperature within the gun so it’s challenging.

Progress is being made mainly thanks to the packaging industry an industry worth billions more than shooting but still business are going back to cardboard and paper bags for packaging.

We as shooters and consumers should be given more information about the wads within each product.

this from one wad manufacturer type and just because the material is EN13432 does not mean the product made from it is.


The literature from xxxxx states as follows

" degrades at least 90% in 6 months when subjected to an environment rich in carbon dioxide"
"when in contact with organic materials for a period of 3 months, the mass of the material decomposes for 90% from fragments less than 2mm in size"
"The material is EN13432 certified"

However, the time frames are not applicable to the UK climate. It will take longer to degrade . What shooters have to realise is that to retain the performance and ballistics of a plastic wad the bio wad needs to be rigid/stable enough to suffer the pressure and heat when a cartridge is fired.

These wads will not degrade within weeks or a few months, they will degrade but there are many factors that determine the timeframe. Eg they will start to breakdown quicker in summer, they will breakdown quicker in the South West of the country compared to the north east / Scotland etc due to climate variation.

Also, we need the wads to have a good shelf life, so shooters can store them for a number of months without fear of the wad breaking down in storage. There must be some compromise. Even a fibre wad doesn't degrade within days/ weeks. It can remain for a while.
It does rather leave a couple of questions unresolved, firstly will clay pigeon grounds and game shoots that currently specify fibre wads only find the alternative wads acceptable, and will these new wads harm livestock if consumed by them?
 
I admire your positivity.
However, the majority will use the cheapest they can get away with. Most of them will not do an in-depth study into wads!

But why do you think that SD ? Im the least interested in cartridges of anyone i know really - historically if it fits in the chamber i use it - many / most game shots - and indeed pigeon shooters are obsessed with shot size / speed / etc etc - look at the threads on here regarding heads - calibres etc
 
I would not argue about the date Tim - but they are now and honestly seem to work really well

Not only do i run the shoot but i do the picking up afterwards (next day) for any runners / birds we could not find - i have found less wounded with steel - same place - same dogs
I was very anti steel as i remember it being forced on us shooting a few ducks as lads - and i do remember the lack of performance - The new stuff - for me and many / most on our shoot - no issues
Even if I wanted to try something like that out its not available locally to me, but as I've just alluded to I shall probably end up making my own anyway.
 
Absolutely.
I've been part of many a small shoot and it's a good thing but greedy commercialisation has ruined it for everyone.
Greedy yes
Commercialisation - maybe part of the whole thing - Think about if a hundred years ago it was commercialisation and or greed that would wipe out every raptor
Do we need a bit of commercialisation to drive down the costs of ammo - birds - accessories - is it this that brings new blood into the way of life ? I know many who started game shooting on "commercial" days of some size and then have filtered down or maybe up as i see it - into a syndicate where your input provides the output
 
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